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Belkin
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Postby Belkin » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Relativity.

May I ask how did you came up with the time frame and periods you use to make your Barros Swings?

Thanks

Belkin

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pp2
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Postby pp2 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:46 am

I like you ideas relativity

I'm using simple renko wave analysis for my trading from top to down because to me it seems the pivots are accurate and sharper than time based IMHO.

Just pondering if you have ever considered your indi without the time element, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think.

Nevertheless, thanks for sharing! ;)

Relativity
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Postby Relativity » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:58 am

Belkin wrote:Relativity.

May I ask how did you came up with the time frame and periods you use to make your Barros Swings?

Thanks

Belkin


Got inspiration from both Ray Barros and Dr Alexander Elder. Both traders use multiple timeframe concepts. I combined both of their ideas together, seeing how they found ways to see time/price objectively.

Dr Alexander Elder - 3 TF levels, rule of 5
Ray Barros - 5 TF levels


Initially, I used to open up muitliple sub windows in MT4 (like how Ti. Doing that a fundamental step towards learning PA, but it is crumple some and will affect live trading analysis and decisions.

Seeing how Masterforex-V trade and teach was the final reason why I created the indicator. The eventual product is something that saves me alot of time and hassle. In one look, I can see what all the timeframes are doing.

The rule of 5 exists because of how time is structured. We have 5 trading days in a week and 4-5 weeks in a month. Half of a typical market session is 4-5 hours, which is 1/5 of a day (24 hours). This rule of 5 relationship is applied onto the swing timeframes.
H1 -> H5 -> H24 -> H120 -> H600
Entry TF -> Session TF -> Trading TF -> Senior TF -> Perspective TF


I can also divide H1 further down to M12 and down to further M2-3, but that would be splitting hairs. I can also go up to make semi-annual swings; MN1 x 6, but it might be too difficult to use and cause lag. It will also mean I might need to get 20 years worth of candle data!

-Entry TF
M30 x 2 = H1
This is the timeframe where finetune entries are made

-Session TF
M15 x 20 = H5
Using data off at least last 2 weeks
This is the timeframe where the swings show in detail, the character of the next upper level TF (Trading TF)

-Trading TF
M30 x 48 = H24 OR D1
Using data off at least last 2 months
This is the main TF to anchor oneself to make decisions. IMO, the trader who uses timeframes equal or higher than daily always wins on the long haul.
When I mean daily, I don't mean daily charts. I meant daily swings. Pardon me for the weird looking (but making some sense) names, but I can't think of any other way. If I call the 'Trading TF' a 'Daily TF', people would think 'oh, the D1 chart'. Which is not the same as a D1 swing.

MT4 timeframes/charts to me are just a function of 'zooming' in and out. Price is the same on all MT4 timeframes/charts. Price is not the same in terms of context when one sees time in a more objectively manner like this. I've created the various swings to be viewable off certain MT4 timeframes : the 'Views Legend' will inform you what swings are you seeing. This setting is customizable, but I reccomend not touching it.

FYI it makes sense to anchor oneself to this timeframe/level as it will show you where the market really wants to go. Also, statistically speaking, D1 candles/swings have enough 'meat' for traders to trade off using both retracement trading and/or trend trading.

Not to mention, big players watch D1 often. One has traded better if he can catch 25% range of a D1 candle than compared to a trader that has caught 75% of a H4 candle. The trader using the higher timeframe is less at risk getting whipsawed + is going to be much much more comfortable letting his trade run.

-Senior TF
M60 x 120 = D5 OR H120 OR W1
Using data off at least last 1 year
Weekly swings. An important level; try not to trade against it. Unless you are very sure.

-Perspective TF
M240 x 150 = W4 OR H600 OR MN1
Using data off at least last 4 years
Monthly swings. This level is surprisingly powerful.

pp2 wrote:I like you ideas relativity

I'm using simple renko wave analysis for my trading from top to down because to me it seems the pivots are accurate and sharper than time based IMHO.

Just pondering if you have ever considered your indi without the time element, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think.

Nevertheless, thanks for sharing! ;)


Thanks pp2!

I had considered using Renko and P&F, but the time element to me important to assist in seeing price momentum in waves/swings. I don't mind learning from others; maybe you can show me something?

On a technical side, doing such an indicator might be easier on excel; peeps in our forum had done it successfully. It is possible to do so on MT4, but I don't think I want to burn time on doing such a thing. Doing this indicator that I now have took me a year or so.

I am trading this method manually for quite sometime, so I know its a matter of time I translate it into an indicator, at least on a semi automatic basis.

So yeah, its possible to create it on MT4.

Belkin
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Postby Belkin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:14 pm

Relativity wrote:
Belkin wrote:Relativity.

May I ask how did you came up with the time frame and periods you use to make your Barros Swings?

Thanks

Belkin


Got inspiration from both Ray Barros and Dr Alexander Elder. Both traders use multiple timeframe concepts. I combined both of their ideas together, seeing how they found ways to see time/price objectively.

Dr Alexander Elder - 3 TF levels, rule of 5
Ray Barros - 5 TF levels


Initially, I used to open up muitliple sub windows in MT4 (like how Ti. Doing that a fundamental step towards learning PA, but it is crumple some and will affect live trading analysis and decisions.

Seeing how Masterforex-V trade and teach was the final reason why I created the indicator. The eventual product is something that saves me alot of time and hassle. In one look, I can see what all the timeframes are doing.

The rule of 5 exists because of how time is structured. We have 5 trading days in a week and 4-5 weeks in a month. Half of a typical market session is 4-5 hours, which is 1/5 of a day (24 hours). This rule of 5 relationship is applied onto the swing timeframes.
H1 -> H5 -> H24 -> H120 -> H600
Entry TF -> Session TF -> Trading TF -> Senior TF -> Perspective TF


I can also divide H1 further down to M12 and down to further M2-3, but that would be splitting hairs. I can also go up to make semi-annual swings; MN1 x 6, but it might be too difficult to use and cause lag. It will also mean I might need to get 20 years worth of candle data!

-Entry TF
M30 x 2 = H1
This is the timeframe where finetune entries are made

-Session TF
M15 x 20 = H5
Using data off at least last 2 weeks
This is the timeframe where the swings show in detail, the character of the next upper level TF (Trading TF)

-Trading TF
M30 x 48 = H24 OR D1
Using data off at least last 2 months
This is the main TF to anchor oneself to make decisions. IMO, the trader who uses timeframes equal or higher than daily always wins on the long haul.
When I mean daily, I don't mean daily charts. I meant daily swings. Pardon me for the weird looking (but making some sense) names, but I can't think of any other way. If I call the 'Trading TF' a 'Daily TF', people would think 'oh, the D1 chart'. Which is not the same as a D1 swing.

MT4 timeframes/charts to me are just a function of 'zooming' in and out. Price is the same on all MT4 timeframes/charts. Price is not the same in terms of context when one sees time in a more objectively manner like this. I've created the various swings to be viewable off certain MT4 timeframes : the 'Views Legend' will inform you what swings are you seeing. This setting is customizable, but I reccomend not touching it.

FYI it makes sense to anchor oneself to this timeframe/level as it will show you where the market really wants to go. Also, statistically speaking, D1 candles/swings have enough 'meat' for traders to trade off using both retracement trading and/or trend trading.

Not to mention, big players watch D1 often. One has traded better if he can catch 25% range of a D1 candle than compared to a trader that has caught 75% of a H4 candle. The trader using the higher timeframe is less at risk getting whipsawed + is going to be much much more comfortable letting his trade run.

-Senior TF
M60 x 120 = D5 OR H120 OR W1
Using data off at least last 1 year
Weekly swings. An important level; try not to trade against it. Unless you are very sure.

-Perspective TF
M240 x 150 = W4 OR H600 OR MN1
Using data off at least last 4 years
Monthly swings. This level is surprisingly powerful.

pp2 wrote:I like you ideas relativity

I'm using simple renko wave analysis for my trading from top to down because to me it seems the pivots are accurate and sharper than time based IMHO.

Just pondering if you have ever considered your indi without the time element, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think.

Nevertheless, thanks for sharing! ;)


Thanks pp2!

I had considered using Renko and P&F, but the time element to me important to assist in seeing price momentum in waves/swings. I don't mind learning from others; maybe you can show me something?

On a technical side, doing such an indicator might be easier on excel; peeps in our forum had done it successfully. It is possible to do so on MT4, but I don't think I want to burn time on doing such a thing. Doing this indicator that I now have took me a year or so.

I am trading this method manually for quite sometime, so I know its a matter of time I translate it into an indicator, at least on a semi automatic basis.

So yeah, its possible to create it on MT4.


Thanks for the reply.

I asked because they show really well the price swings. Better than the TF Barros states in his book in my opinion.

The swings give nice if then lines.. And breakout entries.. I am likign this..

gonna post a chart

Belkin

Relativity
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Postby Relativity » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:56 pm

Belkin wrote:
Relativity wrote:
Belkin wrote:Relativity.

May I ask how did you came up with the time frame and periods you use to make your Barros Swings?

Thanks

Belkin


Got inspiration from both Ray Barros and Dr Alexander Elder. Both traders use multiple timeframe concepts. I combined both of their ideas together, seeing how they found ways to see time/price objectively.

Dr Alexander Elder - 3 TF levels, rule of 5
Ray Barros - 5 TF levels


Initially, I used to open up muitliple sub windows in MT4 (like how Ti. Doing that a fundamental step towards learning PA, but it is crumple some and will affect live trading analysis and decisions.

Seeing how Masterforex-V trade and teach was the final reason why I created the indicator. The eventual product is something that saves me alot of time and hassle. In one look, I can see what all the timeframes are doing.

The rule of 5 exists because of how time is structured. We have 5 trading days in a week and 4-5 weeks in a month. Half of a typical market session is 4-5 hours, which is 1/5 of a day (24 hours). This rule of 5 relationship is applied onto the swing timeframes.
H1 -> H5 -> H24 -> H120 -> H600
Entry TF -> Session TF -> Trading TF -> Senior TF -> Perspective TF


I can also divide H1 further down to M12 and down to further M2-3, but that would be splitting hairs. I can also go up to make semi-annual swings; MN1 x 6, but it might be too difficult to use and cause lag. It will also mean I might need to get 20 years worth of candle data!

-Entry TF
M30 x 2 = H1
This is the timeframe where finetune entries are made

-Session TF
M15 x 20 = H5
Using data off at least last 2 weeks
This is the timeframe where the swings show in detail, the character of the next upper level TF (Trading TF)

-Trading TF
M30 x 48 = H24 OR D1
Using data off at least last 2 months
This is the main TF to anchor oneself to make decisions. IMO, the trader who uses timeframes equal or higher than daily always wins on the long haul.
When I mean daily, I don't mean daily charts. I meant daily swings. Pardon me for the weird looking (but making some sense) names, but I can't think of any other way. If I call the 'Trading TF' a 'Daily TF', people would think 'oh, the D1 chart'. Which is not the same as a D1 swing.

MT4 timeframes/charts to me are just a function of 'zooming' in and out. Price is the same on all MT4 timeframes/charts. Price is not the same in terms of context when one sees time in a more objectively manner like this. I've created the various swings to be viewable off certain MT4 timeframes : the 'Views Legend' will inform you what swings are you seeing. This setting is customizable, but I reccomend not touching it.

FYI it makes sense to anchor oneself to this timeframe/level as it will show you where the market really wants to go. Also, statistically speaking, D1 candles/swings have enough 'meat' for traders to trade off using both retracement trading and/or trend trading.

Not to mention, big players watch D1 often. One has traded better if he can catch 25% range of a D1 candle than compared to a trader that has caught 75% of a H4 candle. The trader using the higher timeframe is less at risk getting whipsawed + is going to be much much more comfortable letting his trade run.

-Senior TF
M60 x 120 = D5 OR H120 OR W1
Using data off at least last 1 year
Weekly swings. An important level; try not to trade against it. Unless you are very sure.

-Perspective TF
M240 x 150 = W4 OR H600 OR MN1
Using data off at least last 4 years
Monthly swings. This level is surprisingly powerful.

pp2 wrote:I like you ideas relativity

I'm using simple renko wave analysis for my trading from top to down because to me it seems the pivots are accurate and sharper than time based IMHO.

Just pondering if you have ever considered your indi without the time element, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think.

Nevertheless, thanks for sharing! ;)


Thanks pp2!

I had considered using Renko and P&F, but the time element to me important to assist in seeing price momentum in waves/swings. I don't mind learning from others; maybe you can show me something?

On a technical side, doing such an indicator might be easier on excel; peeps in our forum had done it successfully. It is possible to do so on MT4, but I don't think I want to burn time on doing such a thing. Doing this indicator that I now have took me a year or so.

I am trading this method manually for quite sometime, so I know its a matter of time I translate it into an indicator, at least on a semi automatic basis.

So yeah, its possible to create it on MT4.


Thanks for the reply.

I asked because they show really well the price swings. Better than the TF Barros states in his book in my opinion.

The swings give nice if then lines.. And breakout entries.. I am likign this..

gonna post a chart

Belkin


Haha thx for the compliments Belkin.

Well, I am not trying to outdo the master. Just doing what I can.

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Relativity
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Postby Relativity » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:24 pm

Continuing from Zline Momo thread with speed26, avoiding derailing the thread over there.


speed26 wrote:"Higher timeframes help to measure level of Exhaustion.
Lower timeframes help to measure level of Momentum."


Never thought of that to be honest, but mainly due to the big knot in my head with TF's. Any chance you could direct me to a thread here or any more info on this topic please? Either way cheers for that, certainly is interesting...


Actually, its pretty common sense; it also took me a while to grasp it. Think long distance running vs sprinting.

One can only measure exhaustion AFTER price has happened. Exhaustion eats off the candle body, creating wicks.

Momentum is how the character of how well price STARTS moving. It starts from the tick level. The more ticks build up into a candle body, the higher the momentum.

When you put them together, you will get something like :

An Exhaustion see from a higher timeframe/view is actually an Momentum when seen on a lower timeframe. Then use time + angle slant + volume to gauge who is 'King At The Moment'.

Zoom out, Zoom in.

Try it! =>


speed26 wrote:"It can be :
Price - how high and low (no introductions here)"


Sorry for the ignorance, but what exactly do you mean with how high and low? Are you referring to a reference point and then how high or low price is relative to the ref. point?


Yes. Because no matter what, we will eventually always need a reference point. The most common factor is still time : its almost instant that the answer is automatic. When someone tells you 'EURUSD is at its high', one would automatically pop the question 'Since when?'


speed26 wrote:"Time - how left and right (same)"

?


Unfortunately, We cannot have a fixed view of time. Coz everyone's view of time is different : someone's H1 high might be actually someone elses W1 low. So who is correct? Who will move the market? Is it a myth that higher timeframes are the way to go? Its a common advice from good traders, but many had a hard time heeding it. I can understand why without being too critical, since I was there before.


speed26 wrote:"Angle Slant - how steep (e.g. trendlines)"

This is interesting. Some people say markets are composed of waves, which are then composed by impulsive and corrective moves.

Back in the day when busting my a$$ on grid approaches i wanted to build a system that would either breakeven or make profit. To do this i split price movement into smaller segments/movements.

Long story short, i havent managed to build such system, although i came close...very close. :roll:

However! I took my thoughts of segmenting price movement into smaller parts, and combined it with the impulse/corrective comment from above.

If starting from a reference point, one can actually build/classify all the different momentum/retracements that ocurred, angle-wise.

Any thoughts on this?


I think I just did what you wanted, regarding building/classifying all the different momentum/retracements.


speed26 wrote:Depth - how deep -> Volume (e.g. tick/contracts)"

Hmm...Thing is, how do we see this in spot fx? Only futures would show us this wouldnt it?

Am I correct in assuming these 4 points are different dimensions of a market?

Cheers!


I am not sure yet, but Volume is something I had decided to return my research on (with help from lglg).

Well... 4 dimensions.... I don't really care. Lol. But if you want to call them that way, I don't mind.

Relativity
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Postby Relativity » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:58 pm

v1.40 released. Various minor tweaks and additions, but the key one is autoRefresh setting = false for lag reduction. Thanks to lglg/george.

Relativity
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Postby Relativity » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:38 pm

Update Release!

AdvFPIanalysisWithCarryTrade.mq4 v3.0 - 30 Nov 2011
The FPI will be used to understand the general market sentiment + pair character/personality when coupled with interest rate changes + carry trade strategy.

TrendTrader_SemiAuto_FULL v1.50 - 30 Nov 2011
Correct loading of the indicator requires 2 conditions : enough candles and enough swings created. The indicator will check and notify you.
Added Quarter SwingsTF
Done lots of renaming/relabelling
Allow the words to show up in a separate window
Very very stable version when it comes to CPU process usage; I need this to be able to add VSA on swings later

zhaozilong
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Postby zhaozilong » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:41 am

Hello Relativity,

many thanks, more toys to play.

i think there are some small bugs. when i set UseSeparateWindows = false for the trendtrader indicator, it still create a new window, and when i put on the statistcs indctaor on the same chart, the stats notes appear in the window of the trend trader indicator instead of its own window.

best regards.

-zhao

Relativity wrote:Update Release!

AdvFPIanalysisWithCarryTrade.mq4 v3.0 - 30 Nov 2011
The FPI will be used to understand the general market sentiment + pair character/personality when coupled with interest rate changes + carry trade strategy.

TrendTrader_SemiAuto_FULL v1.50 - 30 Nov 2011
Correct loading of the indicator requires 2 conditions : enough candles and enough swings created. The indicator will check and notify you.
Added Quarter SwingsTF
Done lots of renaming/relabelling
Allow the words to show up in a separate window
Very very stable version when it comes to CPU process usage; I need this to be able to add VSA on swings later

Relativity
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:19 pm
Reputation: 0
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Postby Relativity » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:50 am

zhaozilong wrote:Hello Relativity,

many thanks, more toys to play.

i think there are some small bugs. when i set UseSeparateWindows = false for the trendtrader indicator, it still create a new window, and when i put on the statistcs indctaor on the same chart, the stats notes appear in the window of the trend trader indicator instead of its own window.

best regards.

-zhao

Relativity wrote:Update Release!

AdvFPIanalysisWithCarryTrade.mq4 v3.0 - 30 Nov 2011
The FPI will be used to understand the general market sentiment + pair character/personality when coupled with interest rate changes + carry trade strategy.

TrendTrader_SemiAuto_FULL v1.50 - 30 Nov 2011
Correct loading of the indicator requires 2 conditions : enough candles and enough swings created. The indicator will check and notify you.
Added Quarter SwingsTF
Done lots of renaming/relabelling
Allow the words to show up in a separate window
Very very stable version when it comes to CPU process usage; I need this to be able to add VSA on swings later


Yes it is suppose to take the same window. Its actually better that way for usage. As for the words overlapping, just adjust the X and Y accordingly to your liking.

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