Never Lose Again

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cfabian
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Postby cfabian » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:06 pm

""#$%!"#$

Really not fair.... I was in this trade, with +12, aiming for the price it is targeting now, moving down in consistent steps. Then my boss told me to go to his office. Oohhh boy... when will this stupid things end up????

H1 formation was good as well, but that freaking long kick stopped me out with a loss. Can you see a better entry, or a sort of explanation as to why should I have waited? Or any anticipation it would go up there?

Image


Image
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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:25 pm

cfabian wrote:""#$%!"#$

Really not fair.... I was in this trade, with +12, aiming for the price it is targeting now, moving down in consistent steps. Then my boss told me to go to his office. Oohhh boy... when will this stupid things end up????

H1 formation was good as well, but that freaking long kick stopped me out with a loss. Can you see a better entry, or a sort of explanation as to why should I have waited? Or any anticipation it would go up there?

Image


Image



for me

we have come down a long way if i was going to take that trade--- i did not, was trading the pound and euro---- i would be really conservative and be looking for a reason to get out due to how far we have come down.

its hard to say bec i was not watching it in real time so it is hindsight now


once support was found based on the white zl and we had an increase of momo off it i would most likely been out and looking for another entry-----arrow down--

Image
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

spa
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Postby spa » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:28 pm

es/pip wrote:

as long as you stay discretionary and do not start thinking "method" or "system"


have to trade what it does not what you think it will do

this is where i get stuck, my mind after a couple years of chart watching is wired to look for setups although this should be second nature after looking for breakout setups so far

spa
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Postby spa » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:46 pm

on hindsight the chart tells a formidable story, but real time i can see where cfabian is coming from, happens to me every other day also chart below
Attachments
eu.gif
few thoughts on the eurusd chart
eu.gif (32.74 KiB) Viewed 960 times
ej.gif
ej.gif (26.83 KiB) Viewed 978 times
Last edited by spa on Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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foreman01
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Postby foreman01 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:06 pm

.....
Last edited by foreman01 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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kc8flq
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Postby kc8flq » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:12 pm

es/pip wrote: I have most likely killed more brain cells than everyone on this board combined.


Aint no way!! :smt005
Its amazing what you get exposed too in the navy :shock:
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cfabian
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Postby cfabian » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:39 pm

Actually I was about to close the trade at that white support line, but to be honest I didn't as down momo on higher TF was big, so didn't really think it would harm me that much.

So, when you see a formation like that, which could be a support area, will you still trade it, or wait to see how price reacts at it???? Meaning if price bounce up, you find another entry at better price at the time that ZL has been canceled clearing the way down, but if price breaks that support, you find another entry point, but with worse price?



es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:""#$%!"#$

Really not fair.... I was in this trade, with +12, aiming for the price it is targeting now, moving down in consistent steps. Then my boss told me to go to his office. Oohhh boy... when will this stupid things end up????

H1 formation was good as well, but that freaking long kick stopped me out with a loss. Can you see a better entry, or a sort of explanation as to why should I have waited? Or any anticipation it would go up there?

Image


Image



for me

we have come down a long way if i was going to take that trade--- i did not, was trading the pound and euro---- i would be really conservative and be looking for a reason to get out due to how far we have come down.

its hard to say bec i was not watching it in real time so it is hindsight now


once support was found based on the white zl and we had an increase of momo off it i would most likely been out and looking for another entry-----arrow down--

Image
WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!

"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:41 pm

foreman01 wrote:As to asking MO to chat with me, I said I would put together a presentation and present it to others which I hoped would include MO. But he is the senior teacher in this thread and I would rather have one of more of his successful students try to explain what they are doingin their own words.

espip said: "I disagree with this statement 100%. This thread contains information that you cannot put a price tag on, and is hardly "ambiguous, irrelevant, tangential, confusing, and conflicting". "

I didn't mean to tweak you. Sorry. I did say "MANY of which are ambiguous, irrelevant, tangential, confusing, and conflicting. " "Many" not "all" I'm pretty sure that some, many, most or all would agree that at least some (if not "many") of the posts and pictures in this thread are not helpful.

So some of you can look at somebody else's trade; and say, "good job" and "on the 5 minute you had another chance to enter a little while later," etc. There are obviously some objective criteria that CAN be explained with words. Probably orally easier for most than by writing it all out.

Certainly it can be quantified to some extent. Otherwise there would not be so much agreement. Indeed, more than one trader has commented that he/she "does things a bit different" than others in regards to drawing zlines etc . If one recognized how they are doing things differently than there is something objective that is being analyzed. Otherwise what does one compare it too in order to assess "same" or "different."

I'm pretty good at explanations to almost anyone once I have a grasp of the material. Thus my offer. I consider a fairly nice offer, since it generally takes me hours and sometimes days to make a quality set of handouts and power point presentations that clearly express a set of ideas, and yet the presentation is usually less than an hour.

I envision some slides that might say:
For example: "In this situation trader1 draws a zline here because .... ; trader2 prefers here because .... "

I can't believe that there is anyone here -- successful or not -- who can't give an explanation of why they are drawing a zline, or defining a candle as a momo, or entering a trade.

When I practice trading with my boy I say, I am drawing a support line here because ...., and a resitance line here because .... The 4 hour trend is ...., but there is a long shadow and a bullilsh engulfing pattern .... Our risk to reward ratio is about 2/1 based on support and resistance. etc and so let's trade here with a stop here etc.


The explanations each of us gives for why we do something may be flawed, but we ought to be able to explain it. Its not a divine mystery.

A highly skilled educator said to me "If you can't explain it, then perhaps you don't understand it."


i am not tweaked at all. I just say what i am thinking instead of sugar coating it for people. its just how i am.

this debate could go on and on with no end to it

you say,

"I can't believe that there is anyone here -- successful or not -- who can't give an explanation of why they are drawing a zline, or defining a candle as a momo, or entering a trade."

and i say

i cant believe that no one can understand that the zl is drawn to show held profit. I cant believe that people cannot understand that momo is defined by a bar's body size relative to other bars body size.

you say

"A highly skilled educator said to me "If you can't explain it, then perhaps you don't understand it."[/quote]"

i say,

He is an educator not a trader. Trading has nothing to do with smartness. Sometimes highly educated people cannot understand this for some reason. They want it to always be 2+2=4, but sometimes it is 2+2=6 and it just is, there is no reason why. Trading is an art not a science.

i still do not agree that this can be explained like you want to do it. All the info is in the thread. How is it that 10 or so random people have come to understand it and not others? Ask monolisa, aliasmith, zap, dragon, fxtrav, pablo, fxjedi or anyone else i left out to explain it and what you are going to get is

body in direction of profit wick in direction of loss

trade in the direction of profit

momo shows the way

if it does not happen on consecutive bars treat it like s/r and trade away from it

a mz is 2x previous bar 50%-- any line can be a zl in that area.

zl mz are not entry techniques they are reference points/areas create your own entry technique


do not take this the wrong way, but have you read the entire thread and put what we have on our charts on yours?

again i may come of harsh or pissed at times but i am not. Its just how i am.
Last edited by es/pip on Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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cfabian
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Postby cfabian » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:46 pm

You may be right at some extent, but you also talking like an educator that you are, and yes is possible things could not be said in words... It happens to me very frequently as I'm not a skillful speaker, while I'm good at numbers. Many times I understand things I cannot explain in words, like many people just cannot get why 2 + 2 = 4



foreman01 wrote:As to asking MO to chat with me, I said I would put together a presentation and present it to others which I hoped would include MO. But he is the senior teacher in this thread and I would rather have one of more of his successful students try to explain what they are doingin their own words.

espip said: "I disagree with this statement 100%. This thread contains information that you cannot put a price tag on, and is hardly "ambiguous, irrelevant, tangential, confusing, and conflicting". "

I didn't mean to tweak you. Sorry. I did say "MANY of which are ambiguous, irrelevant, tangential, confusing, and conflicting. " "Many" not "all" I'm pretty sure that some, many, most or all would agree that at least some (if not "many") of the posts and pictures in this thread are not helpful.

So some of you can look at somebody else's trade; and say, "good job" and "on the 5 minute you had another chance to enter a little while later," etc. There are obviously some objective criteria that CAN be explained with words. Probably orally easier for most than by writing it all out.

Certainly it can be quantified to some extent. Otherwise there would not be so much agreement. Indeed, more than one trader has commented that he/she "does things a bit different" than others in regards to drawing zlines etc . If one recognized how they are doing things differently than there is something objective that is being analyzed. Otherwise what does one compare it too in order to assess "same" or "different."

I'm pretty good at explanations to almost anyone once I have a grasp of the material. Thus my offer. I consider a fairly nice offer, since it generally takes me hours and sometimes days to make a quality set of handouts and power point presentations that clearly express a set of ideas, and yet the presentation is usually less than an hour.

I envision some slides that might say:
For example: "In this situation trader1 draws a zline here because .... ; trader2 prefers here because .... "

I can't believe that there is anyone here -- successful or not -- who can't give an explanation of why they are drawing a zline, or defining a candle as a momo, or entering a trade.

When I practice trading with my boy I say, I am drawing a support line here because ...., and a resitance line here because .... The 4 hour trend is ...., but there is a long shadow and a bullilsh engulfing pattern .... Our risk to reward ratio is about 2/1 based on support and resistance. etc and so let's trade here with a stop here etc.


The explanations each of us gives for why we do something may be flawed, but we ought to be able to explain it. Its not a divine mystery.

A highly skilled educator said to me "If you can't explain it, then perhaps you don't understand it."
WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!

"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"

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kc8flq
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Postby kc8flq » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:49 pm

es/pip wrote:
body in direction of profit wick in direction of loss

trade in the direction of profit

momo shows the way

if it does not happen on consecutive bars treat it like s/r and trade away from it

a mz is 2x previous bar 50%-- any line can be a zl in that area.


do not take this the wrong way, but have you read the entire thread and put what we have on our charts on yours?

again i may come of harsh or pissed at times but i am not. Its just how i am.


Its that straight line explaining that has helped me to see it, along with putting whats on your charts on mine.
Foreman, if you haven't read the entire thread, you're missing the heart of it all. It's a learning curve that you're NOT going to get by reading a PP presentation or small document.
Give a man a fish.... feed him for a day...

Teach a man to fish.... feed him for a LIFETIME!!!

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