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Humble
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Postby Humble » Sat May 09, 2009 2:13 am

" It seems that the more that I use them, the price just takes off and never retraces. I found that I would lose a lot of opportunities on the Buy Zone using them."

That's the choices you have.

1/. Lets say 50% of the time price takes off without you
and
2/. 50% of the time price comes back (retraces) and gets you.

Result of 1/. - no loss to your bank, 2/. You are in the trade at a better price.

Alternatively just ender as you do.

1/. lets say 50% of the time price takes off with you
and
2/. 50% of the time price retraces and you get stopped out.

Results of 1/. are now - you are in the trade but with less profit as you did not get the better price, 2/. You have made a loss.

Just do the sums for which applies to your style of trading.


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razorboy
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Postby razorboy » Sat May 09, 2009 2:36 am

Take a look at the chart i posted - now imagine getting in on a trade from the extreme - your risk/reward is very low. You just have to look at enough charts to know this will happen and remember it when you are in the moment. it always look obvious after the fact

but i will say it takes a while getting used to using limit orders. i still need to train myself better. So when I forget, i use this little experiment to demonstrate..........try at your own risk. You will require

1. a wall
2. a ball - the hardest. heaviest one you can find - if you have a cannon ball, that would be optimal

the wall represents the horizontal line you are using as your set up line. your goal is to put the ball thru the wall and if it doesnt go through, you need to catch it

now stand 1 inch from the wall, wind up and whip the ball at the wall, try to catch it if it bounces and throw it back............over and over and over..........

Now try the experiment standing 15 feet back............probably a little easier - you can do a proper wind up and get some momentum and put it through the wall (or at least lodge it in the wall)

Alternatively, you can try breaking down a door from a stand still (market order) or a running start (limit order - momentum is on your side)

Do not hold me responsible for any injuries....................

rowdy wrote:
razorboy wrote:Why limit orders?

[s]Cuz market orders are like overweight strippers - more bounce per ounce[/s] ........if you are looking at a psych line trade (or any entry target for that matter, you get more profit potential with the same amount of risk. I find the volatility at the lines is way too high - it obviously doesnt show that on a static chart. Plus the limit orders let you get in outside the value area (as i understand it, the value area is where most of the trades take place and there isnt a lot of profit to be made)

Be bold..........use limits ...........sound familiar


Thanks razorboy, it does sound familiar. I know all of the best traders here use them. Unfortunately, for me it still isnt clicking. I still dont "see" it. But I do appreciate your explanation.
Last edited by razorboy on Sat May 09, 2009 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sat May 09, 2009 2:58 am

All you are doing is entering 20% of your position per click instead of all at once.

If you want the go long 1 standard at a line then go long 2 mini lots instead. If all is well then immediately add 2 more and then 2 more and then 2 more until you have 1 standard lot.

I'd say that the time between clicks is the time it takes you to say "all is well."

If some thing goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over :shocked:
If price hits a 00 line and you enter 2 mini lots and price responds by reversing 20 pips then you are not going to keep clicking the button.

If price does start to take off then you have nothing to worry about; you are making money so keep clicking until you have a position of 1 standard.

Let patience be your edge...


holy123 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Hi MO,

always glad to learn from you.

could you please elaborate a bit more on this ?
Maybe give an example. That would be really helpful.

thanks a lot

h123

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razorboy
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Postby razorboy » Sat May 09, 2009 3:05 am

so the question is, are you trading with the H1 color, or the d1 color

I think it is D1 actually that is more important - look at what happens when D1 and H1 are the same color when you enter a trade - you typically get a better pop

Just my thoughts


prochargedmopar wrote:Razor,
I've been saying for a looooooong time that it is much better to let the price "back up" from the line after it touches before you enter.

With something like e/j you "normally" get plenty of chances to get in. Most of the time I'd have to let it go well beyond the line and retrace before it was "safe" to take the trade.

Funny how price moves.
Yes rowdy, sometimes you get left behind. That's why I like 10 lines. Not so many wasted pips but I only used those for a few days and then went back to psych's. May have to crank them back up again soon.
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!



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razorboy
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Postby razorboy » Sat May 09, 2009 3:25 am

What is your definition of "immediately"?



MightyOne wrote:All you are doing is entering 20% of your position per click instead of all at once.

If you want the go long 1 standard at a line then go long 2 mini lots instead. If all is well then immediately add 2 more and then 2 more and then 2 more until you have 1 standard lot.

I'd say that the time between clicks is the time it takes you to say "all is well."

If some thing goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over :shocked:
If price hits a 00 line and you enter 2 mini lots and price responds by reversing 20 pips then you are not going to keep clicking the button.

If price does start to take off then you have nothing to worry about; you are making money so keep clicking until you have a position of 1 standard.

Let patience be your edge...


holy123 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Hi MO,

always glad to learn from you.

could you please elaborate a bit more on this ?
Maybe give an example. That would be really helpful.

thanks a lot

h123
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!



http://thejoshkerbelproject.com/

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat May 09, 2009 3:50 am

MightyOne wrote:
If something goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over
:shock:

h123
[/quote]

:twisted:
I like that statement....
I've noticed the "close all" button is a sweet feature.

And if things continue to go well,
Who says you'd have to stop at 1 standard.
Getting greedy are we? LOL
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby rowdy » Sat May 09, 2009 11:47 am

Thanks to everyone here that responded to my limit order posts. I am finally starting to understand now, and I feel comfortable trading something that I understand. No more buy/sell stops. I am going to force myself to use limit orders no matter what. Now my only problem is how to explain to my next door neighbor the hole in his house the size of a wrecking ball. :)
All I need is Supply and Demand

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 pm

~ 2 ticks of movement from click to click.



razorboy wrote:What is your definition of "immediately"?



MightyOne wrote:All you are doing is entering 20% of your position per click instead of all at once.

If you want the go long 1 standard at a line then go long 2 mini lots instead. If all is well then immediately add 2 more and then 2 more and then 2 more until you have 1 standard lot.

I'd say that the time between clicks is the time it takes you to say "all is well."

If some thing goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over :shocked:
If price hits a 00 line and you enter 2 mini lots and price responds by reversing 20 pips then you are not going to keep clicking the button.

If price does start to take off then you have nothing to worry about; you are making money so keep clicking until you have a position of 1 standard.

Let patience be your edge...


holy123 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Hi MO,

always glad to learn from you.

could you please elaborate a bit more on this ?
Maybe give an example. That would be really helpful.

thanks a lot

h123

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sat May 09, 2009 3:08 pm

The greatest advantage is that instead of questioning a trade the initial order size will be so small that you can't talk your self out of doing what is right.

After I have a full position (all 5 clicks) then I switch gears to managing the trade.



prochargedmopar wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
If something goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over
:shock:

h123


:twisted:
I like that statement....
I've noticed the "close all" button is a sweet feature.

And if things continue to go well,
Who says you'd have to stop at 1 standard.
Getting greedy are we? LOL[/quote]

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razorboy
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Postby razorboy » Sat May 09, 2009 5:01 pm

I am assuming this is a scalping play.............or are you dropping off units a price goes your way to build profit to grow your SL?


I am still beating myself to figure out how to use the dynamic trend approach and when the trend needs to be recalculated.........




MightyOne wrote:~ 2 ticks of movement from click to click.



razorboy wrote:What is your definition of "immediately"?



MightyOne wrote:All you are doing is entering 20% of your position per click instead of all at once.

If you want the go long 1 standard at a line then go long 2 mini lots instead. If all is well then immediately add 2 more and then 2 more and then 2 more until you have 1 standard lot.

I'd say that the time between clicks is the time it takes you to say "all is well."

If some thing goes wrong you will know because your trigger finger will start to freeze over :shocked:
If price hits a 00 line and you enter 2 mini lots and price responds by reversing 20 pips then you are not going to keep clicking the button.

If price does start to take off then you have nothing to worry about; you are making money so keep clicking until you have a position of 1 standard.

Let patience be your edge...


holy123 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Hi MO,

always glad to learn from you.

could you please elaborate a bit more on this ?
Maybe give an example. That would be really helpful.

thanks a lot

h123
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!



http://thejoshkerbelproject.com/

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


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