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TheRumpledOne
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Postby TheRumpledOne » Thu May 07, 2009 5:41 am

rowdy wrote:I just checked and I dont have TRO2009_MPMM_PIPCHANGE_HL. I should have all of the donational indicators. Plus I think I have downloaded all of the motherlodes. I have TRO2009_MPMM_PIPCHANGE but not the HL.


I haven't sent it out to everyone yet. MO was testing it for me. I will send it out soon.
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Postby MightyOne » Thu May 07, 2009 7:08 pm

I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Fri May 08, 2009 7:50 pm

Nice!

How often does this happen?
This gave me a chuckle.
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Fun with Horizonal Lines

Postby razorboy » Fri May 08, 2009 8:25 pm

maybe throw this Tortoise technique in with some horizontal trading.

Was trading horizontal lines today 1 trade an hour - market orders in the direction of the H1 at the psych lines - was really getting bounced around and stopped out just by a bit each time ( sometimes more than a bit - but rarely did price cross the "next pysch line) - and of course, go the "right" way. These psych lines were really reactive and I didnt want to loosen up my SL by too much as I wasn't getting a huge bang for the buck on my trades or make more than one trade an hour

Then, I thought to myself, what would mightyOne do here.........

To paraphrase - rather than hitting a market entry, go for a limit entry where you would have put your SL

So rather than trading with H1, I traded the psych lines with D1, when price would approach a psych line, I would let it, bounce and retrace and then have a limit order (today they were buy orders) at 15 pips below the psych level that is being worked on - (with a 15 pt sl) but with a much bigger TP level - typically the next psychline up, so about 50 points. In other words, I used the previous psychline that had just been crossed rather than the one price was working on - which is usually quite reactive (except it seems on a counter trend move - could this be what MO was talking about when discussing his diamond and angles....)

and for your view pleasure............a chart - 15 minute candles with 1 h overlay.

Image

I suspect that this approach takes some of the volatility and guess work out of Horizontal lines (like when should i kill a trade type of thing)





MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!

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Re: Fun with Horizonal Lines

Postby rowdy » Fri May 08, 2009 9:30 pm

razorboy wrote:maybe throw this Tortoise technique in with some horizontal trading.

Was trading horizontal lines today 1 trade an hour - market orders in the direction of the H1 at the psych lines - was really getting bounced around and stopped out just by a bit each time ( sometimes more than a bit - but rarely did price cross the "next pysch line) - and of course, go the "right" way. These psych lines were really reactive and I didnt want to loosen up my SL by too much as I wasn't getting a huge bang for the buck on my trades or make more than one trade an hour

Then, I thought to myself, what would mightyOne do here.........

To paraphrase - rather than hitting a market entry, go for a limit entry where you would have put your SL

So rather than trading with H1, I traded the psych lines with D1, when price would approach a psych line, I would let it, bounce and retrace and then have a limit order (today they were buy orders) at 15 pips below the psych level that is being worked on - (with a 15 pt sl) but with a much bigger TP level - typically the next psychline up, so about 50 points. In other words, I used the previous psychline that had just been crossed rather than the one price was working on - which is usually quite reactive (except it seems on a counter trend move - could this be what MO was talking about when discussing his diamond and angles....)

and for your view pleasure............a chart - 15 minute candles with 1 h overlay.

Image

I suspect that this approach takes some of the volatility and guess work out of Horizontal lines (like when should i kill a trade type of thing)





MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Razorboy,
I am curious why you would use limit orders. It seems that the more that I use them, the price just takes off and never retraces. I found that I would lose a lot of opportunities on the Buy Zone using them.

What is the real advantage over using buy/sell stops?

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Postby holy123 » Fri May 08, 2009 10:10 pm

MightyOne wrote:I considered for hours upon hours which method of money management offered to lowest draw down and the greatest potential reward and have come up with a few answers.

Method 1: The Tortoise:

Let us say that you wish to go short 1 standard lot upon receiving an indication to do so:

1. Instead of setting your one click entry to 1 standard lot set it to 2 mini lots.
2. Push the button and enter 2 mini lots

Did price slam into your SL? No biggie!

3. Does every thing appear to be ok ie no adverse reactions? Ok then push the button again and now you are up to 4 mini lots.

You don't have to wait for a specific amount of time; think of it as crossing several streets pausing for a second at each one to make sure that there are no oncoming cars.

If price retraced 6 pips and held steady then your next push of the button would contain a SL that is 6 pips higher than the first short.

I would consider an adverse reaction to be a near instantaneous move against me of 9 or more pips.

What if price shoots up 40, 60, or 80 pips and I only got 1 click off!

How often does this happen?

You should trade as if only bad things happen and consider the good times to be a blessing.


Hi MO,

always glad to learn from you.

could you please elaborate a bit more on this ?
Maybe give an example. That would be really helpful.

thanks a lot

h123

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Postby prochargedmopar » Fri May 08, 2009 11:22 pm

Razor,
I've been saying for a looooooong time that it is much better to let the price "back up" from the line after it touches before you enter.

With something like e/j you "normally" get plenty of chances to get in. Most of the time I'd have to let it go well beyond the line and retrace before it was "safe" to take the trade.

Funny how price moves.
Yes rowdy, sometimes you get left behind. That's why I like 10 lines. Not so many wasted pips but I only used those for a few days and then went back to psych's. May have to crank them back up again soon.
Last edited by prochargedmopar on Sat May 09, 2009 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby razorboy » Fri May 08, 2009 11:55 pm

Why limit orders?

[s]Cuz market orders are like overweight strippers - more bounce per ounce[/s] ........if you are looking at a psych line trade (or any entry target for that matter, you get more profit potential with the same amount of risk. I find the volatility at the lines is way too high - it obviously doesnt show that on a static chart. Plus the limit orders let you get in outside the value area (as i understand it, the value area is where most of the trades take place and there isnt a lot of profit to be made)

Be bold..........use limits ...........sound familiar

prochargedmopar wrote:Razor,
I've been saying for a looooooong time that it is much better to let the price "back up" from the line after it touches before you enter.

With something like e/j you "normal" get plenty of chances to get in. Most of the time I'd have to let it go well beyond the line and retrace before it was "safe" to take the trade.

Funny how price moves.
Yes rowdy, sometimes you get left behind. That's why I like 10 lines. Not so many wasted pips but I only used those for a few days and then went back to psych's. May have to crank them back up again soon.
Ya, I manufacture clear shoe boxes.....http://www.clear-shoe-boxes.com.............who would have thunk!



http://thejoshkerbelproject.com/

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Postby rowdy » Sat May 09, 2009 1:29 am

razorboy wrote:Why limit orders?

[s]Cuz market orders are like overweight strippers - more bounce per ounce[/s] ........if you are looking at a psych line trade (or any entry target for that matter, you get more profit potential with the same amount of risk. I find the volatility at the lines is way too high - it obviously doesnt show that on a static chart. Plus the limit orders let you get in outside the value area (as i understand it, the value area is where most of the trades take place and there isnt a lot of profit to be made)

Be bold..........use limits ...........sound familiar


Thanks razorboy, it does sound familiar. I know all of the best traders here use them. Unfortunately, for me it still isnt clicking. I still dont "see" it. But I do appreciate your explanation.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat May 09, 2009 2:01 am

rowdy,
think of it like this.

When you take a trade would you rather be down -12 pips or -5 pips a few moments after you place your order?

With limit orders you let price "come back" to pick you up and take you for a ride.

You can do this manually but it is hard to time it out just right. You've also got the emotional issue of seeing price start to "take off" and then clicking 3-4 pips to late which makes it that much worse when it retraces.

Even with all that being said:
I use market orders/at best. LOL

I'm going to wait to learn all that until I start using MBT navigator. I need to get on with it soon though.
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My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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