A fresh start! Doji's Trading Journal

If you don't know where to start, start here! Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
Jalarupa
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:50 pm
Reputation: 2
Location: South Africa
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby Jalarupa » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:18 pm

bettlebox wrote:Does anyone understand the concept of Close Above Close Below and can clarify it for me.

I think my conceptual model what i think it is, is wrong and it keeps flip flopping with in my mind.

Thanks
BB


Hey BB,

Please excuse my lack of depth and models and real awesome work like the stuff you release, but I try and understand this concept in its simplest form...

Image

Above you will see a bunch of lines places at strategic places where there has been Open/Close momo or extreme price exhaustion or near corresponding chart patterns like the FAT CAT / Quasi Modo / Inverse H/S pattern and what you are essentially looking for is a move away from your line...

The theory is that price may CROSS the line, BUT may not close beyond the line... Otherwise you made a mistake in your assimilation of what is a good line...

A good line is something that is in a Demand or Supply Zone (something you know very much about)

Personally I like to draw them at Dragon Lines Open/Close areas after a strong turn in price. BUT I have seem MO look towards a extreme that sits in a ZONE of imbalance and that extreme although not coming off as strong an area as a Dragon Line does supply a lot of info regarding PA at that price level...

So yeah, also its not a perfect science but a simple one... try not to over complicate it and you'll see great benefits in its application.

I hope I have helped you in some small way :)
"our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure... It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us..."

I trade using <<FX SYNERGY>>

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
bettlebox
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby bettlebox » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:59 pm

Hi Jara

Thanks.
Ok Maybe this why its flip flopping in my mind. Looks like I mis-read something along way or pickup on something that isnt there.

This is concept i had in my mind for "Close above, Close below". Its not even close. I will have to be careful what i allow into my conceptual mind.

I dont even know what this is.




Jalarupa wrote:
bettlebox wrote:Does anyone understand the concept of Close Above Close Below and can clarify it for me.

I think my conceptual model what i think it is, is wrong and it keeps flip flopping with in my mind.

Thanks
BB


Hey BB,

Please excuse my lack of depth and models and real awesome work like the stuff you release, but I try and understand this concept in its simplest form...

Image

Above you will see a bunch of lines places at strategic places where there has been Open/Close momo or extreme price exhaustion or near corresponding chart patterns like the FAT CAT / Quasi Modo / Inverse H/S pattern and what you are essentially looking for is a move away from your line...

The theory is that price may CROSS the line, BUT may not close beyond the line... Otherwise you made a mistake in your assimilation of what is a good line...

A good line is something that is in a Demand or Supply Zone (something you know very much about)

Personally I like to draw them at Dragon Lines Open/Close areas after a strong turn in price. BUT I have seem MO look towards a extreme that sits in a ZONE of imbalance and that extreme although not coming off as strong an area as a Dragon Line does supply a lot of info regarding PA at that price level...

So yeah, also its not a perfect science but a simple one... try not to over complicate it and you'll see great benefits in its application.

I hope I have helped you in some small way :)
There are two forces acting upon us: Suffering pushes us forward from behind and pleasures entice us and pull us forward.

User avatar
Jalarupa
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:50 pm
Reputation: 2
Location: South Africa
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby Jalarupa » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:38 am

bettlebox wrote:Hi Jara

Thanks.
Ok Maybe this why its flip flopping in my mind. Looks like I mis-read something along way or pickup on something that isnt there.

This is concept i had in my mind for "Close above, Close below". Its not even close. I will have to be careful what i allow into my conceptual mind.

I dont even know what this is.




Jalarupa wrote:
bettlebox wrote:Does anyone understand the concept of Close Above Close Below and can clarify it for me.

I think my conceptual model what i think it is, is wrong and it keeps flip flopping with in my mind.

Thanks
BB


Hey BB,

Please excuse my lack of depth and models and real awesome work like the stuff you release, but I try and understand this concept in its simplest form...

Image

Above you will see a bunch of lines places at strategic places where there has been Open/Close momo or extreme price exhaustion or near corresponding chart patterns like the FAT CAT / Quasi Modo / Inverse H/S pattern and what you are essentially looking for is a move away from your line...

The theory is that price may CROSS the line, BUT may not close beyond the line... Otherwise you made a mistake in your assimilation of what is a good line...

A good line is something that is in a Demand or Supply Zone (something you know very much about)

Personally I like to draw them at Dragon Lines Open/Close areas after a strong turn in price. BUT I have seem MO look towards a extreme that sits in a ZONE of imbalance and that extreme although not coming off as strong an area as a Dragon Line does supply a lot of info regarding PA at that price level...

So yeah, also its not a perfect science but a simple one... try not to over complicate it and you'll see great benefits in its application.

I hope I have helped you in some small way :)


Just note if you looking at it in this way, that you can combine candles to get the effect you are suggesting... or you can focus on the higher time frame candle and what it is telling you of the same line
"our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure... It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us..."

I trade using <<FX SYNERGY>>

User avatar
dojirock
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby dojirock » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:54 am

Im sorry guys, those of you that are still struggling or have been for a while. Dont be afraid to look different ways. DC is very successful with his method. RB's work wonderfully for me.

I drew up Jala's chart with Rb's to show how easy it is to interpet momentum. I use 2 time frames.
The open of the RB boxes is the originating point of momentum. Same as a color change that dragon uses. Zline, Zline...ugh...is anywhere in that zone.
It takes momentum to break momentum. These are all the rb areas...they are not drawn discretionary. They can be read in a couple differnent ways but it really is simple.
I then marked up 3 more charts with RB's and added the macd that DC uses and all the "hopper traders use" RB's filter out bad trades! DC uses on renko or range bars. I find RB's are more accurate on time charts overall. But just taking DC's method...cross of the macd zero line and then a 123 setup...look at those areas...what happens to the rb's in those areas? What happens to the RB's on the false breaks of the macd zero cross?
Hope this helps...
Make some pips!
Attachments
eurjpyh1bbbbb.png
eurjpyh1bbbbb.png (77.92 KiB) Viewed 325 times
eurjpyh1bbbb.png
eurjpyh1bbbb.png (81.59 KiB) Viewed 325 times
eurjpyh1bbb.png
eurjpyh1bbb.png (77.7 KiB) Viewed 325 times
audcad-d1-armada-markets.png
audcad-d1-armada-markets.png (28.32 KiB) Viewed 325 times
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO
"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."
"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

User avatar
dojirock
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby dojirock » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:59 am

Also, my comment about stacking. News, I take the break of the RB. That becomes my open line. I expect a retrace back then as it comes back to my open line and moves in my direction I stack the crap out of it. This way when I am wrong im only out my original lot size. When im right its amped up! If I get a new RB and sitll in the trade then I move my open line to the close of the new RB, wait for a retrace and then stack more as it comes back and crosses that line again. Price more times than not, because the Rb's signify momentum, it never returns to that area again for that trade.

doji
:D

ps... wus up DC! Hope all is well with you.
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
onontsira
rank: 50+ posts
rank: 50+ posts
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:01 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male

Exits...

Postby onontsira » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:52 am

Still struggling at exiting where I should...

Do you guys have any comments?

(entry was late but ok, should have enter at 0.8972)
Attachments
poorexit_a.GIF
poorexit_a.GIF (46.73 KiB) Viewed 302 times
poorexit_b.GIF
poorexit_b.GIF (93.59 KiB) Viewed 302 times

User avatar
newscalper
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:58 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Female

Postby newscalper » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:46 pm

Thanks for the charts Doji, really appreciate it but still unclear.

It looks like you're entering on the basis of a single bar breaking the upper line (of a red bias zone) or the lower line (of a green bias zone), in which case, why were they called bias zones? i.e. a zone defining bias, when that is clearly the exact opposite of what they are, or are they?

I don't understand how that correlates to 'it takes momo to break momo' when you're defining momo as an RB? If momo is an RB, it takes an RB to break an RB and that isn't what you're drawing?

I don't know - I thought that was just indication of it being wicked? I'm still no wiser how you're fitting the 2 TFs into that? Unless there's then a pullback on the lower TF forming an RB followed by a single bar break again? But I was trying to show that with the prior charts I put up showing the 2TF RBs, it just doesn't happen that way. Or is the larger TF you're talking about used to define a range between a long and a short RB and then you trade between the two on the shorter TF?

The confusion across the board arises because no-one is able to explain it consistently...either that or we're all just thick. Which is likely :lol: And still, where is the exit, because especially with stacking, you are going to lose big time unless you know where you're getting out.

I really appreciate all the work you're putting in, I really do, but it's just getting more unclear as it goes on.

For example showing RBs on a day chart on one currency then a bunch on an H1 on a totally different currency, in total means? Are they supposed to correlate or something?

I'm on the verge of giving up TBH, all I do is lose money and I feel I've completely wasted 5 years of my life. Much of it trying to understand what's on kreslik :lol:

User avatar
bettlebox
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Re: Exits...

Postby bettlebox » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:06 pm

Hi Onontsira,

from your comment "exiting where i should" says to me you have pre planned exit point (which is good) but finding difficult to get to that price level while price cycles up and down.

This my experience so far, im no means an expert. I found that entering a trade is easrier to do than holding a trade to your planned target. It takes 100 times the confidence to hold on to trade compared to entering a trade.

Entering is like split second decision and its over.But holding a trade is whole new ball game.

I like to sit at screen and watch my trades every step of the way (this is alot harder by way cause you are open to market illusions) reason for this cause i use disaster stop/losses.

I have find 2 methods that have helped me
1. While in a position and price is running to my primary target (often a Zline). I will focus on my stop/loss only, yes i have target and i remain aware of it. But what i found is if i focus on the target you start riding emotions as price moves forward to your target and then ebbs away. Over period time you get drawn into market illusions. By focusing on the stop/loss you don't get drawn in so easily. Usually you end thinking "give me my target or take my profit." instead of like someone at the horses willing their horse to line. :D

There is a level emotional resilence required to sit and watch a trade run to a given target. Each time you exprience this it makes you more resilent , tougher. Remember this.

2. Second method is a tool to find what triggers you emotionally. What you do re-run your trade in your mind from entry to exit.
(here is example)
1) entry (how did you feel?) - its a good setup
2) position went in to profit (how did you feel?) -yea go go go
3) position then went moved into negative (how did you feel) - ummm this isnt looking so good
4) position went to 1 pip of your stop/loss? - looks like a loss
5) position jumps up +20 (still 20 pips to go for your target) pips in your favour? PHEW!! that was close one
6) position moves against you 10 pips? - maybe i should take the +10pips cause price almost took me out, i had a narrow escape.

You take +10 pips, come back later and check charts too find price did reach your target.
(so triggers in above example would be step 5 & 6, coming from a negative feeling suddenly back to positive and then slow decline into a negative again. So your goal in next trade is to stay aware of emotional response. If price moves against you then you should be ready for the emotions to start running. Instead getting caught by surprise by it. )

Whats point all this? to show you where your soft spots are. Basically its tool to help you learn what your triggers are. Once you are aware of your triggers you can then do something about them. You know whats coming basically so you brace yourself. Do this enough times and it will become second nature.

I find just been aware of how and when the markets push my buttons is enough for me to over ride the emotions. Like anything in life if you keep practising this you will get better at it. Its a skill.It just take time and practise.

Of course you can avoid all the above just set hard stop/loss and hard take profit(or alert at your take profit area) and walk away from the screen. :D

Wheres the fun in that?

NB: dont be silly if your up 4:1 on a trade and you only 5-10 pips off your target. You not going to let price run all way back to your stop/loss and give all your profit back, there is a balance here.

BB

onontsira wrote:Still struggling at exiting where I should...

Do you guys have any comments?

(entry was late but ok, should have enter at 0.8972)
There are two forces acting upon us: Suffering pushes us forward from behind and pleasures entice us and pull us forward.

User avatar
dojirock
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby dojirock » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:08 pm

My guess my trading has evolved into stuff that is unrecognizable to some of you. I guess my style has gone more weighted to trading the breaks of momentum then stacking after a retrace. While many here are still trying to trade with a momentum. I have found for me to get my 30-80 pips, its easier to define where momentum has started and watch for those breaks and trade away from the old momentum if I had momentum in my favor already in the direction Im going. The momentum RB doesn not have to cross the previous momentum start line. it just has to exist to show it is pushing towards that line. For example the bearish RB, followed by a bullish RB tells me momentum is pushing into the previous momentum. I only take a trade if that momentum push is strong enough to close beyond the previous momentum start line. It doesnt have to visually, its like inertia...the force is there...or like trying to throw a ball upon a tall roof. If you cant throw it that high...its not enough force to overcome the roof. If you can, then your ball doesnt come back, right? If it clears the roof by 40 feet it only comes back 40 feet (retrace) to hit the roof, you never get your ball back. :)
Another example is picture yourself under a frozen lake, the ice symbolizes the momentum starting point. You jump off the bottom to get momentum, hit the ice, but was it enough to break thru and climb out? If not then im gonna bet im going back down. If I do climb out...im out of there(up). I look at high probabilites. These are very high. I dont need a ton of pips anymore due to the statistics and a special way I MM my lot size. I go 4 levels. I cant tell you the last time I lost 4 times in a row since I adjusted by trading plan. I use 4hr RB's in this example because they are strong. Im on a hourly time chart for entries. My entries in this method have nothing to do with 1 hr RBs. That being said, I do trade RB's 3 different ways but I dont mix them on a chart. There is a way to trade with the RB's and momentum, but its more a scalp for me these days. Im trading the breaks, the retraces are wicks if you go up time frames...its just too confusing to find the great trades with all the lines, wicks and momentum both ways. This method is one direction...the brand new momentum direction but only if it has enough force to break the previous momentum RB start line. As far as stacking...i disagree, but I will come back to that when i get more time...

I dont mind everyone posting there ways here, they really are the same. But when learning, that means your learning from everyone, in different teaching styles, and views. Even thought they are all basically the same, they dont appear to be.

doji


newscalper wrote:Thanks for the charts Doji, really appreciate it but still unclear.

It looks like you're entering on the basis of a single bar breaking the upper line (of a red bias zone) or the lower line (of a green bias zone), in which case, why were they called bias zones? i.e. a zone defining bias, when that is clearly the exact opposite of what they are, or are they?

I don't understand how that correlates to 'it takes momo to break momo' when you're defining momo as an RB? If momo is an RB, it takes an RB to break an RB and that isn't what you're drawing?

I don't know - I thought that was just indication of it being wicked? I'm still no wiser how you're fitting the 2 TFs into that? Unless there's then a pullback on the lower TF forming an RB followed by a single bar break again? But I was trying to show that with the prior charts I put up showing the 2TF RBs, it just doesn't happen that way.

The confusion across the board arises because no-one is able to explain it consistently...either that or we're all just thick. Which is likely :lol: And still, where is the exit, because especially with stacking, you are going to lose big time unless you know where you're getting out.

I really appreciate all the work you're putting in, I really do, but it's just getting more unclear as it goes on.

For example showing RBs on a day chart on one currency then a bunch on an H1 on a totally different currency, in total means? Are they supposed to correlate or something?
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

User avatar
bettlebox
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby bettlebox » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 pm

Hi Doji

Totally agree higher time frames and getting in as the party starts on new highertime frame swings. Its where i would like to get my trading to that point in future. Having to look for trades down on 5,15min is alot work, day in day out. I think term "work smarter not harder" applies here :D.

lol I like your analogies btw. I can see its possible to make the step up to higher timeframes.

Doji can you keep posting your trades in these higher timeframes?.

BB

dojirock wrote:My guess my trading has evolved into stuff that is unrecognizable to some of you. I guess my style has gone more weighted to trading the breaks of momentum then stacking after a retrace. While many here are still trying to trade with a momentum. I have found for me to get my 30-80 pips, its easier to define where momentum has started and watch for those breaks and trade away from the old momentum if I had momentum in my favor already in the direction Im going. The momentum RB doesn not have to cross the previous momentum start line. it just has to exist to show it is pushing towards that line. For example the bearish RB, followed by a bullish RB tells me momentum is pushing into the previous momentum. I only take a trade if that momentum push is strong enough to close beyond the previous momentum start line. It doesnt have to visually, its like inertia...the force is there...or like trying to throw a ball upon a tall roof. If you cant throw it that high...its not enough force to overcome the roof. If you can, then your ball doesnt come back, right? If it clears the roof by 40 feet it only comes back 40 feet (retrace) to hit the roof, you never get your ball back. :)
Another example is picture yourself under a frozen lake, the ice symbolizes the momentum starting point. You jump off the bottom to get momentum, hit the ice, but was it enough to break thru and climb out? If not then im gonna bet im going back down. If I do climb out...im out of there(up). I look at high probabilites. These are very high. I dont need a ton of pips anymore due to the statistics and a special way I MM my lot size. I go 4 levels. I cant tell you the last time I lost 4 times in a row since I adjusted by trading plan. I use 4hr RB's in this example because they are strong. Im on a hourly time chart for entries. My entries in this method have nothing to do with 1 hr RBs. That being said, I do trade RB's 3 different ways but I dont mix them on a chart. There is a way to trade with the RB's and momentum, but its more a scalp for me these days. Im trading the breaks, the retraces are wicks if you go up time frames...its just too confusing to find the great trades with all the lines, wicks and momentum both ways. This method is one direction...the brand new momentum direction but only if it has enough force to break the previous momentum RB start line. As far as stacking...i disagree, but I will come back to that when i get more time...

I dont mind everyone posting there ways here, they really are the same. But when learning, that means your learning from everyone, in different teaching styles, and views. Even thought they are all basically the same, they dont appear to be.

doji


newscalper wrote:Thanks for the charts Doji, really appreciate it but still unclear.

It looks like you're entering on the basis of a single bar breaking the upper line (of a red bias zone) or the lower line (of a green bias zone), in which case, why were they called bias zones? i.e. a zone defining bias, when that is clearly the exact opposite of what they are, or are they?

I don't understand how that correlates to 'it takes momo to break momo' when you're defining momo as an RB? If momo is an RB, it takes an RB to break an RB and that isn't what you're drawing?

I don't know - I thought that was just indication of it being wicked? I'm still no wiser how you're fitting the 2 TFs into that? Unless there's then a pullback on the lower TF forming an RB followed by a single bar break again? But I was trying to show that with the prior charts I put up showing the 2TF RBs, it just doesn't happen that way.

The confusion across the board arises because no-one is able to explain it consistently...either that or we're all just thick. Which is likely :lol: And still, where is the exit, because especially with stacking, you are going to lose big time unless you know where you're getting out.

I really appreciate all the work you're putting in, I really do, but it's just getting more unclear as it goes on.

For example showing RBs on a day chart on one currency then a bunch on an H1 on a totally different currency, in total means? Are they supposed to correlate or something?
There are two forces acting upon us: Suffering pushes us forward from behind and pleasures entice us and pull us forward.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “beginners forum”