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prochargedmopar
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Postby prochargedmopar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:10 am

Kreslik Mantra posted in pp2 thread Jan. 22 2012:

MightyOne wrote:

I ask if price is higher or lower than something

I define when I am wrong

I determine the most that I can pay to enter into a trade based on how much space that I am willing to lose.

After I have taken a trade within range I follow three easy steps:

1) Space
2) Value
3) Pips

I do not add because I think that price will move a hundred or hundreds of pips, I add so that I will have a large lot size WHEN it moves a hundred or hundreds of pips.

I use the chart as a reason to take action and a tap on the shoulder to try again next time.
Once I am in the trade the chart fades into the background & I am only concerned with the three steps.

There you have it, MO's ePost.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby newscalper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:29 am

dojirock wrote:Hi newsscalper,

If I get this right....? Over time you add to your space until you dont feel you need anymore, then add to your lot size and your returns will become so beautiful in your favor instead of the 1:1 ratio, it would be like 1:5, 1:10, 1:18 and as you can guess risk/rewards of those,???? you cant lose...your losers would have to be many, i mean many! This is awesome...thinking about it.. Now I understand the guy that is 2:1 or 1:1 or even 1:2 will never make it in the long run unless they have a extremely high success rate, which is rare. Your losses come from profits eventually and then the emotional rollercoaster becomes extinct.... Totally Awesome!

dojirock


Yes doji, I understand ALL that always have but unless you can get position 1, entry 1 on the right side consistently you are no better off. Money management will not turn a trader with no edge into a winner. I've tried it time and again on live trades and you know what keeps happening? I get that 1st winner big enough to add to. I add to it, price comes back to my I/T and I'm out for less than b/e. If you're not careful it can end in the same fallacy that people THINK, that after they've moved their stop to b/e they're in a risk free trade where in fact they are not because 9/10 their stop gets hit then they have to risk another 2% opening another position.

That puts me back at square 1 so I am entering again with a pip-cushion, not a pin cushion. This time I lose, and then I lose on the next 3 also.

I then have have a runner but I don't take profit, I add and again I'm out at my I/T.

See? No edge = still losing. Money mgmt makes not one iota of difference to expectancy. It'll make you more profitable if you have an edge, otherwise it just means your account is perhaps getting killed less quickly.

I'm not poo pooing space at all. But what I'm saying is is that unless you are already in the + it's not going to be a magic bullet.

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Postby newscalper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:39 am

These are the questions I'm asking again and again and have yet to find an answer

MightyOne wrote:

I ask if price is higher or lower than something

By how much: 1 pip? 10 pips? A hundred pips? How are you defining your criteria?

I define when I am wrong
Yep, but again price just going to where you define you're wrong isn't where you get out is it - this is CCs etc and defining exacly what is meant as a close - A 4Hr close?, A weekly close? A CC close on M15 a CC close on H1?

I have the same problem with MOMO, momo under what criteria? M15 momo, H4 momo? Depending on how far you scroll back and where you can always find bigger momo in the opposite direction...go with the trend, again it depends on where you start looking at the chart as to which way the trend it going


I determine the most that I can pay to enter into a trade based on how much space that I am willing to lose.

After I have taken a trade within range I follow three easy steps:

1) Space
2) Value
3) Pips

I do not add because I think that price will move a hundred or hundreds of pips, I add so that I will have a large lot size WHEN it moves a hundred or hundreds of pips.

I use the chart as a reason to take action and a tap on the shoulder to try again next time.
Once I am in the trade the chart fades into the background & I am only concerned with the three steps.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:12 pm

newscalper wrote:These are the questions I'm asking again and again and have yet to find an answer

MightyOne wrote:

I ask if price is higher or lower than something

By how much: 1 pip? 10 pips? A hundred pips? How are you defining your criteria?

I define when I am wrong
Yep, but again price just going to where you define you're wrong isn't where you get out is it - this is CCs etc and defining exacly what is meant as a close - A 4Hr close?, A weekly close? A CC close on M15 a CC close on H1?



I have the same problem with MOMO, momo under what criteria? M15 momo, H4 momo? Depending on how far you scroll back and where you can always find bigger momo in the opposite direction...go with the trend, again it depends on where you start looking at the chart as to which way the trend it going


I determine the most that I can pay to enter into a trade based on how much space that I am willing to lose.

After I have taken a trade within range I follow three easy steps:

1) Space
2) Value
3) Pips

I do not add because I think that price will move a hundred or hundreds of pips, I add so that I will have a large lot size WHEN it moves a hundred or hundreds of pips.

I use the chart as a reason to take action and a tap on the shoulder to try again next time.
Once I am in the trade the chart fades into the background & I am only concerned with the three steps.


newscalper, change your name:
Your a loser.
You have stinkin thinkin.
IF you can consistently lose, and you can quantify this by keeping record of what your doing when you enter/exit, then you are sitting on a gold mine.
You dont REALLY want to win and you dont BELIEVE its possible.
Either hang it up or take a look at the chart and ask yourself, what the *censored - swear word* am I doing here.
Then look VERY closely in the mirror and ask if you REALLY want this???
Ask how the hell am I going get what I want.
Ask how am I going to see what is under my nose that im choosing to overlook.
Start asking questions about HOW you are going to succeed, NOT why your a failure!!!
AND KEEP IN MIND THAT IF YOU HAVE A CONSISTENT WAY OF LOSING THEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK FOR THIS SIGNAL AND REVERSE THE ACTION.

Document HOW you LOSE and ask HOW you can use this to profit.
I recommend the name newwinner but that all depends on your answer to the mirror.

IF I DO NOT MAKE MY GOAL IT IS ALL ON ME BABY, NOT THE MARKET, BROKER, BANK, OR EVEN THE METHOD OF WHICH I USE.
Adjustments can and should be made, ROBOTS ALWAYS LOSE WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTION SO STOP LOOKING FOR A HOLY SYSTEM!!!!
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby Remora » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:17 pm

! :roll:
Last edited by Remora on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Remora » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:17 pm

:? faulty post system
Last edited by Remora on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Remora » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:19 pm

Edge + Money Management = cha ching, sorry pro just saying, not aimed at you. In my post to PP2 was refering to what was said about stops larger than 20 pips, wasn't refering to the space concept. Is a trader with no edge even a trader? Doubt it! More like a person full of hope.

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Postby roctao » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:26 pm

@ newscalper.

1. Space- I have $500 dollars I want in the eur/usd at 1.32 and am not taking any less than 1.36 only risking $10 dolllars. I am gonna get run over quickly with a 10 pip stop....unless I enter with a .01 so that my if/then is alot farther away and my lowest price to accept my money back is even farther, so that I can go about my day without freting over colored candels.
Now if/when I am rite I can take profit rethink things and enter again (possibly) with the same space at a better value..

I think?
No math was done for this post because of time constraints so........

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Postby newscalper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:30 pm

prochargedmopar wrote:
newscalper wrote:These are the questions I'm asking again and again and have yet to find an answer

MightyOne wrote:

I ask if price is higher or lower than something

By how much: 1 pip? 10 pips? A hundred pips? How are you defining your criteria?

I define when I am wrong
Yep, but again price just going to where you define you're wrong isn't where you get out is it - this is CCs etc and defining exacly what is meant as a close - A 4Hr close?, A weekly close? A CC close on M15 a CC close on H1?



I have the same problem with MOMO, momo under what criteria? M15 momo, H4 momo? Depending on how far you scroll back and where you can always find bigger momo in the opposite direction...go with the trend, again it depends on where you start looking at the chart as to which way the trend it going


I determine the most that I can pay to enter into a trade based on how much space that I am willing to lose.

After I have taken a trade within range I follow three easy steps:

1) Space
2) Value
3) Pips

I do not add because I think that price will move a hundred or hundreds of pips, I add so that I will have a large lot size WHEN it moves a hundred or hundreds of pips.

I use the chart as a reason to take action and a tap on the shoulder to try again next time.
Once I am in the trade the chart fades into the background & I am only concerned with the three steps.


newscalper, change your name:
Your a loser.
You have stinkin thinkin.
IF you can consistently lose, and you can quantify this by keeping record of what your doing when you enter/exit, then you are sitting on a gold mine.
You dont REALLY want to win and you dont BELIEVE its possible.
Either hang it up or take a look at the chart and ask yourself, what the *censored - swear word* am I doing here.
Then look VERY closely in the mirror and ask if you REALLY want this???
Ask how the hell am I going get what I want.
Ask how am I going to see what is under my nose that im choosing to overlook.
Start asking questions about HOW you are going to succeed, NOT why your a failure!!!
AND KEEP IN MIND THAT IF YOU HAVE A CONSISTENT WAY OF LOSING THEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK FOR THIS SIGNAL AND REVERSE THE ACTION.

Sorry but that's b0llocks and you know it

I still don't see any tangable answers to my questions either

Document HOW you LOSE and ask HOW you can use this to profit.
I recommend the name newwinner but that all depends on your answer to the mirror.

:) :)

IF I DO NOT MAKE MY GOAL IT IS ALL ON ME BABY, NOT THE MARKET, BROKER, BANK, OR EVEN THE METHOD OF WHICH I USE.
Adjustments can and should be made, ROBOTS ALWAYS LOSE WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTION SO STOP LOOKING FOR A HOLY SYSTEM!!!!


I'm not looking for a holy system . There isn't one, I never intimated there was one.

OK. Let me put it another way. Using your method as you trade and plus space over a small sample of even 200 live trades have you made money?

If you can't answer that question then it's all conjecture and possibilities not backed by results (no I'm not asking for an account statement or anything as purile).

I SEE IT :lol: . I SEE the possibilities, I think I already SAID, I'm NOT poo pooing it.

And I'll say it again. UNLESS you already have a definable edge, money management will not make it any different. And yes, I have yet to find a way to make it profitable, I'm still around break even, and no, space will not make it profitable. But I'll also put it to you that, no ifs or buts, providing 2 people can follow the same method of trading, it should be profitable for both, or 10 people, or 100 people. If some method is sound there doesn't need to BE an infinite number of variations of trading it, it will be profitable or it won't. Once that method is there, in existance, then yes space will take you to the moon.

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Postby newscalper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Remora wrote:Edge + Money Management = cha ching, sorry pro just saying, not aimed at you. In my post to PP2 was refering to what was said about stops larger than 20 pips, wasn't refering to the space concept. Is a trader with no edge even a trader? Doubt it! More like a person full of hope.


So why are you here then? On this forum? If you have such an edge you don't need to be on the likes of Kreslik.

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