ProchargedMopar's Trading Trilogy

free & uncensored discussion arena for TheRumpledOne

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
prochargedmopar
rank: 5000+ posts
rank: 5000+ posts
Posts: 5545
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 8
Location: Granbury, TX
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby prochargedmopar » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:53 pm

prochargedmopar wrote:
newscalper wrote:You misunderstand me - I wasn't asking about candles or bars, I was asking if you meant swing pivots?

I'll post a graphic up of what a swing pivot is if you want?

Image

BTW, I'm not talking about systems either :) . I've never actually seen a proper system for manual, discretionary traders on the internet anywhere. I've seen entry methods and money management strategies but never a whole, complete system.


Ahhh yes, that is an example but DO NOT MISS the fact that if you look left in the middle of the apex there were bars that also wicked the top and bottom of the line also......The future will not dissapoint. (Im talking where price action intersected left of yout 2 fat white lines. :) )


Look at 0.80075 line for example on the grid........crazy s**t.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

dchappy
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:48 pm
Reputation: 3
Gender: Male

Postby dchappy » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:15 pm

prochargedmopar wrote:
dchappy wrote:Hi Pro , I'm having trouble understanding the advantage space gives .

Risk/SL = Lot size... is what I do ..

SL is always above/below the swing ( could be 5 to 25 pips )

As account grows , Risk remains the same and lot size grows .

What am I not seeing ?

Thanks


You my friend have got Iron clad determination!!
I put you in the same catagory as others here that have balls of steel.

BUT, you have a few difficulties also. Through a disconnect from "unrealized" profits yoir able to exponetially increase your lot size without increasing the overall risk to your "realozed" profits.
Once realized from an internal point of being, you will no longer have difficulties hoding your trades to a predetermined target wbile scaling in and out on the way(ever increasing your returns in the process)

Lets do this. You regularly post 3-6 trades of 5-10 pips profit any given day.
What is your daily target in pips?
What is your daily target in % increase?
MOST importantly, ask yourself how much am I willing to lose today?
Now, with that figure in mind how do we maximize our gains from the start of the day until the end of that same day????
ANSWER: By re-investing your profits into your LOT size or by re-investing your profits by increasing your stop to make more space for longer runs(more pips) without getting whipsawed.........OR BOTH.

WHAT EVER YOU ARE RISKING TO MAKE MONEY THAT DAY, IS WHAT YOU ARE RISKING.
(paraphrased from m.o.)

Chappy, Minimize your losses (% they effect what your willing to risk) and maximie your profits (in comparison to what your willing to risk)

See?





So..using space , I should have taken the profit (10 pip)from the 1st win

added it to the next trades stop loss ? This would have given more

"wiggle" room and allowed the 2nd trade to be a winner also (keeping the

same lot size and not increasing risk ).

If this is space , then I do see the advantage ... I'll have to chew on this ...............

Thanks again
Attachments
space.gif
space.gif (37.64 KiB) Viewed 1078 times

User avatar
newscalper
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:58 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Female

Postby newscalper » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:47 pm

prochargedmopar wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
newscalper wrote:You misunderstand me - I wasn't asking about candles or bars, I was asking if you meant swing pivots?

I'll post a graphic up of what a swing pivot is if you want?

Image

BTW, I'm not talking about systems either :) . I've never actually seen a proper system for manual, discretionary traders on the internet anywhere. I've seen entry methods and money management strategies but never a whole, complete system.


Ahhh yes, that is an example but DO NOT MISS the fact that if you look left in the middle of the apex there were bars that also wicked the top and bottom of the line also......The future will not dissapoint. (Im talking where price action intersected left of yout 2 fat white lines. :) )


Look at 0.80075 line for example on the grid........crazy s**t.


Yeah, 80075. Now if we're talking swing pivots here, the line would be drawn until after the bounce was seen in August and previous resistance HAD become support, or would you be drawing it before as a potential area i.e. at swing highs and swing lows?

User avatar
bredin
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:41 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby bredin » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Pros been doing a pretty good job so far :)

The goal with trading with space is to trade at your accounts maximum lotsize. Safely.

ie a 500 account at 100:1 leverage give you 0.5 lots (roughly).

If you have 2% risk (ie 10) risked over a 10 pip stop is only 1/pip or 0.1 lots... youd need to risk 10% to reach maximum lotsize with a 10 pip stop. Its just not safe.

I'll now mention explicitly the concept of the account ledger, which is related to Space.

Most traders think of the account only as equity, and risk a portion of that. This means that, in actuality, their entire account is at risk, albeit in thin slices. They limit their risk in this way, which also limits their lotsize.
So in this concept (not new, hinted at in many posts) ones account is separated into two pieces, by this formula:

E = L + R
Equity = Leverage + Risk
in our quick example
500 = 490 + 10

and yields the maximum lotsize of the account (ie 0.49)

now the cool bit ;)
when you have a win you add it to the R side of the ledger
so if I continue the example of $10 risk 10 pip stop = 0.1 lots

a trade is made for +15 the ledger becomes
490/25
and the next trade can be made at 0.25 lots
another trade is made for +25, the ledger becomes
490/50
lotsize is now 0.5, which is the account maximum...
another trade made for +50
490/100
now you can move money from R to L
540/50
and now you have no risk at all... your equity is safe.
Now I can be much more agressive than before, without getting stressed.

this should illustrate one power of this...
the next is that Space doesnt use a stop. It uses an I/T, and you never allow your risk to be destroyed in one go.
There is an element of delayed gratification that leads to much greater rewards than any other method Ive come across.

Not to mention contracting space on the way to bigger targets, enlarging your lotsize, and all those other cool space trick

G.
Welcome to the era of "Guns and Maskies" Trading!
The previous message contains discretion. Viewer nudity is advised.
Insanity Industries Indicators Here
Insanity Industries on YouTube!

User avatar
dojirock
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby dojirock » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:33 pm

Hi newsscalper,

If I get this right....? Over time you add to your space until you dont feel you need anymore, then add to your lot size and your returns will become so beautiful in your favor instead of the 1:1 ratio, it would be like 1:5, 1:10, 1:18 and as you can guess risk/rewards of those,???? you cant lose...your losers would have to be many, i mean many! This is awesome...thinking about it.. Now I understand the guy that is 2:1 or 1:1 or even 1:2 will never make it in the long run unless they have a extremely high success rate, which is rare. Your losses come from profits eventually and then the emotional rollercoaster becomes extinct.... Totally Awesome!

dojirock
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO
"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."
"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
dojirock
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby dojirock » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:35 pm

I opened a new account with $50.00 in it...today to put this to the test....
It will take a few days to get the ball rolling..due to the small amount...

I will post, stay tuned!

dojirock
thanks Mighty One & Pro
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

User avatar
prochargedmopar
rank: 5000+ posts
rank: 5000+ posts
Posts: 5545
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 8
Location: Granbury, TX
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby prochargedmopar » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:50 pm

dchappy wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
dchappy wrote:Hi Pro , I'm having trouble understanding the advantage space gives .

Risk/SL = Lot size... is what I do ..

SL is always above/below the swing ( could be 5 to 25 pips )

As account grows , Risk remains the same and lot size grows .

What am I not seeing ?

Thanks


You my friend have got Iron clad determination!!
I put you in the same catagory as others here that have balls of steel.

BUT, you have a few difficulties also. Through a disconnect from "unrealized" profits yoir able to exponetially increase your lot size without increasing the overall risk to your "realozed" profits.
Once realized from an internal point of being, you will no longer have difficulties hoding your trades to a predetermined target wbile scaling in and out on the way(ever increasing your returns in the process)


Lets do this. You regularly post 3-6 trades of 5-10 pips profit any given day.
What is your daily target in pips?
What is your daily target in % increase?
MOST importantly, ask yourself how much am I willing to lose today?
Now, with that figure in mind how do we maximize our gains from the start of the day until the end of that same day????
ANSWER: By re-investing your profits into your LOT size or by re-investing your profits by increasing your stop to make more space for longer runs(more pips) without getting whipsawed.........OR BOTH.

WHAT EVER YOU ARE RISKING TO MAKE MONEY THAT DAY, IS WHAT YOU ARE RISKING.
(paraphrased from m.o.)

Chappy, Minimize your losses (% they effect what your willing to risk) and maximie your profits (in comparison to what your willing to risk)

See?






So..using space , I should have taken the profit (10 pip)from the 1st win

added it to the next trades stop loss ? This would have given more

"wiggle" room and allowed the 2nd trade to be a winner also (keeping the

same lot size and not increasing risk ).

Yes your 2nd trade would not have been a loss and yoir 3rd trade (if you felt you now had plenty of space) would have been using much bigger lot size with less chance of beimg whipsawed.

Read bredin's post
I know many days you get 3-5 wins in a row, Imagine now your account balance if you risked 1/2 % wise of what you normally do but upped the lot size each trade!!!!!!!
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

User avatar
prochargedmopar
rank: 5000+ posts
rank: 5000+ posts
Posts: 5545
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 8
Location: Granbury, TX
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby prochargedmopar » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:01 pm

bredin wrote:Pros been doing a pretty good job so far :)

The goal with trading with space is to trade at your accounts maximum lotsize. Safely.

ie a 500 account at 100:1 leverage give you 0.5 lots (roughly).

If you have 2% risk (ie 10) risked over a 10 pip stop is only 1/pip or 0.1 lots... youd need to risk 10% to reach maximum lotsize with a 10 pip stop. Its just not safe.

I'll now mention explicitly the concept of the account ledger, which is related to Space.

Most traders think of the account only as equity, and risk a portion of that. This means that, in actuality, their entire account is at risk, albeit in thin slices. They limit their risk in this way, which also limits their lotsize.
So in this concept (not new, hinted at in many posts) ones account is separated into two pieces, by this formula:

E = L + R
Equity = Leverage + Risk
in our quick example
500 = 490 + 10

and yields the maximum lotsize of the account (ie 0.49)

now the cool bit ;)
when you have a win you add it to the R side of the ledger
so if I continue the example of $10 risk 10 pip stop = 0.1 lots

a trade is made for +15 the ledger becomes
490/25
and the next trade can be made at 0.25 lots
another trade is made for +25, the ledger becomes
490/50
lotsize is now 0.5, which is the account maximum...
another trade made for +50
490/100
now you can move money from R to L
540/50
and now you have no risk at all... your equity is safe.
Now I can be much more agressive than before, without getting stressed.

this should illustrate one power of this...
the next is that Space doesnt use a stop. It uses an I/T, and you never allow your risk to be destroyed in one go.
There is an element of delayed gratification that leads to much greater rewards than any other method Ive come across.

Not to mention contracting space on the way to bigger targets, enlarging your lotsize, and all those other cool space trick

G.


Thanks for the help Mr. Mentor/Trading Coach
The concept of both has always seemed very simple to understand analytically but it wasnt until you made me do the "homework" that it actually turned to wisdom. :)
The lightbulb blinked when I realized my profits could actually be bigger than losses without having to go further in the market.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

pp2
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:03 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby pp2 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:10 am

prochargedmopar wrote:In that example your stop was not getting bigger(maybe bigger than your use to though) but look at your profit potential!!!!!!

Lot value is 6x the size of your initial trade BUT your account risk is still a paultry 2%.
You could even take the 4th trade risk free if you choose with slightly smaller lots and let that baby RUN!!!!

pp2 wrote:PRO

Am I on the same wavelength here?



$1k account risking 2% using 30 stop.

1000x.02 = $20 risk / 30 stop = $0.67 per pip.
First trade was +20 or $13.4
$13.4 profit +$20 original risk is $34.4 risk/30 stop = $1.11 per pip

Second trade was +30 pips or $33.3
$33.3+ $13.4 + $20(original 2% risk) =$66.7/30 stop = $2.22 per pip

Third trade was +26 pips or $57.7.
$57.7+ $33.3 + $13.4 + $20(original 2% risk) =$124.4/30 stop = $4.14 per pip

If I doing this right, what I like about it is that even though the total percentage gain of all three trades is around 12% which is nice, I like the fact that trading seems less stressful and more fun because my stop has widened and risk is 2% compared with trading 5% before.

Now waiting on a fourth trade lot size would be 4.14 dollars a pip.
EDIT: why 30 pip stop?? no idea, just feel it's enough room so that I wouldn't get caught by any spikes (I think MO has a trick like 1.5 x 5 min range somewhere, I need to look)


I've always thought bigger stops less risk grows my account at a snail pace but with this MM, this is truly nice to maximize profit in a safe way.

THANKS PRO!

User avatar
prochargedmopar
rank: 5000+ posts
rank: 5000+ posts
Posts: 5545
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 8
Location: Granbury, TX
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby prochargedmopar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:42 am

pp2 wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:In that example your stop was not getting bigger(maybe bigger than your use to though) but look at your profit potential!!!!!!

Lot value is 6x the size of your initial trade BUT your account risk is still a paultry 2%.
You could even take the 4th trade risk free if you choose with slightly smaller lots and let that baby RUN!!!!

pp2 wrote:PRO

Am I on the same wavelength here?



$1k account risking 2% using 30 stop.

1000x.02 = $20 risk / 30 stop = $0.67 per pip.
First trade was +20 or $13.4
$13.4 profit +$20 original risk is $34.4 risk/30 stop = $1.11 per pip

Second trade was +30 pips or $33.3
$33.3+ $13.4 + $20(original 2% risk) =$66.7/30 stop = $2.22 per pip

Third trade was +26 pips or $57.7.
$57.7+ $33.3 + $13.4 + $20(original 2% risk) =$124.4/30 stop = $4.14 per pip

If I doing this right, what I like about it is that even though the total percentage gain of all three trades is around 12% which is nice, I like the fact that trading seems less stressful and more fun because my stop has widened and risk is 2% compared with trading 5% before.

Now waiting on a fourth trade lot size would be 4.14 dollars a pip.
EDIT: why 30 pip stop?? no idea, just feel it's enough room so that I wouldn't get caught by any spikes (I think MO has a trick like 1.5 x 5 min range somewhere, I need to look)


I've always thought bigger stops less risk grows my account at a snail pace but with this MM, this is truly nice to maximize profit in a safe way.

THANKS PRO!


Your welcome BUT,

No need to thank me,

ALL THANKS SHOULD GO TO OUR RESIDENT "MASTER" TRADER THE
MIGHTYONE

He graciously outlined how to do this multiple times between March/May of 2009.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “TheRumpledOne”