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brettnchrism
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Postby brettnchrism » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:51 pm

Yes I see the z lines getting hit I just need to figure out the direction from there if u look at the gj chart we have a double bottom on hourly and a reversal mono but it's reversing into a h4 down mono candle could be tricky

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Postby dragon33 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:59 pm

cfabian wrote:I'm having 30 pip mental stop. Probably it will be better to actually set a stop loss with the broker, as sometimes you can't close at your price, or simply are trapped in the belief price will turn in your favor and do not click the close button.

I tend not to look 5M. I'm more focused on how the candles in my trade's TF looks like.




es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:How you manage your stops/losses?

What´s your hard stop on all cases?

I didn't take that trade for same reason... specially as I'm having hard time to manage my stops and losses.


es/pip wrote:wasn't thrilled the way the h1 bar closed------ so i averaged into it

and

it was obvious that they were targeting the held profit on the 4hr

so i just rode it down with them



Image



right now hard stop is 20 pips

when a 5 min bar closes against me i do 1 of the following

1. exit then
2. try and get out at b/e
3. make a judgment call on how the 5 min bars are looking whether to stay in or not. if there is no 5 min momo and it closes against me sometimes i will stay in.

it is different every time

this is 1 of the reasons that zl/ mz is not a system or a method-------- it has some discretionary elements to it


what are u using for your hard stop?

are you watching the 5 min at all?

remember---------- zl/mz is not an entry trigger--- you dont just take it bec it is there


Do you have the guts to make trades from 30 pips over and over again?
Do you let a loser run untill reached the mental SL?

If so you can NOT win in the long run!!!

This is why MO is showing us the way to get in with a tiny SL and make H4 runs. This is why you need to fully understand what you are doing!
If you can trade RR 1/3 it does not matter you only trade 50/50 because you still keep on the winning side. Keep that in mind and i can assure you you don't need a SL of 30 pips! Keep looking and find your way how to get in with that small SL
Last edited by dragon33 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prochargedmopar
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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:08 pm

aliassmith wrote:
brettnchrism wrote:
aliassmith wrote:On the weekend I like to use a trade simulator to go over the H1 charts for the week. On the usd/jpy H1 for aug 10th week I managed to get 34% on 3% risk. I believe I'll be watching usd/jpy, gbp/usd/ eur/usd, and eur/jpy. Of course leverage will be a limiting factor when trying to trade 4 pairs. I'll only be able to have one to two positions going at the same time.

I guess that is not a big problem, I can live with 30% + a week :D since I only need half of sexteentrillion dollars.
Hey alias I am just starting to just trade z lines maybe you could post a chart so I can see what you are seeing also I am always trying to learn to improve. I say 30 percent is pretty darn good Thanks. Brett


Hi Brett,

Let me start by saying in no way am I a pro at the zeroline stuff. I have reviewed a lot of information from Mightyone, es/pips, dragon33, and Zapzinig. I didn't SEE the multitimeframe stuff the most of the guys did, but what Zap was doing really jumped out at me.

Anyway here is my chart showing two trades. The first position I expected to go long with the momo candle I let my position build, but It didn't take off so I bailed out for about .5% return.

The second position I expected to short. Price broke short and pulled back to a ZL so I placed 3% risk on a small stoploss and rode it down. I thought it was having issues going down to my next ZL so I bailed for 12.5% return. No point being greedy and lossing it all.

I lost the chart from the beginning of the week, the trade simulators can be a bit cumbersome.


alias,
I agree, for some reason Zap's chart really opened my eyes to targets and trading away from zeroed area's on the chart......

I could see the momo and retrace but was not sure where it was coming from or leading to before he started mosting his charts.
Good stuff..
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My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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brettnchrism
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Postby brettnchrism » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:30 pm

cfabian wrote:I'm having 30 pip mental stop. Probably it will be better to actually set a stop loss with the broker, as sometimes you can't close at your price, or simply are trapped in the belief price will turn in your favor and do not click the close button.

I tend not to look 5M. I'm more focused on how the candles in my trade's TF looks like.
What time frame do u focus on the most?




es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:How you manage your stops/losses?

What´s your hard stop on all cases?

I didn't take that trade for same reason... specially as I'm having hard time to manage my stops and losses.


es/pip wrote:wasn't thrilled the way the h1 bar closed------ so i averaged into it

and

it was obvious that they were targeting the held profit on the 4hr

so i just rode it down with them



Image



right now hard stop is 20 pips

when a 5 min bar closes against me i do 1 of the following

1. exit then
2. try and get out at b/e
3. make a judgment call on how the 5 min bars are looking whether to stay in or not. if there is no 5 min momo and it closes against me sometimes i will stay in.

it is different every time

this is 1 of the reasons that zl/ mz is not a system or a method-------- it has some discretionary elements to it


what are u using for your hard stop?

are you watching the 5 min at all?

remember---------- zl/mz is not an entry trigger--- you dont just take it bec it is there

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:54 am

brettnchrism wrote:
cfabian wrote:I'm having 30 pip mental stop. Probably it will be better to actually set a stop loss with the broker, as sometimes you can't close at your price, or simply are trapped in the belief price will turn in your favor and do not click the close button.

I tend not to look 5M. I'm more focused on how the candles in my trade's TF looks like.
What time frame do u focus on the most?




es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:How you manage your stops/losses?

What´s your hard stop on all cases?

I didn't take that trade for same reason... specially as I'm having hard time to manage my stops and losses.


es/pip wrote:wasn't thrilled the way the h1 bar closed------ so i averaged into it

and

it was obvious that they were targeting the held profit on the 4hr

so i just rode it down with them



Image



right now hard stop is 20 pips

when a 5 min bar closes against me i do 1 of the following

1. exit then
2. try and get out at b/e
3. make a judgment call on how the 5 min bars are looking whether to stay in or not. if there is no 5 min momo and it closes against me sometimes i will stay in.

it is different every time

this is 1 of the reasons that zl/ mz is not a system or a method-------- it has some discretionary elements to it


what are u using for your hard stop?

are you watching the 5 min at all?

remember---------- zl/mz is not an entry trigger--- you dont just take it bec it is there


Traders alter what they are doing based on what they are seeing, if that is what you are pointing out.

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:06 am

brettnchrism wrote:Ok I am waiting for my ah ha moment here. My first one was seeing how traders get zero'd out and I completely see that all over my charts with the help of blubb's z line indicator.

Now ES said (if this trade/area holds where is the next group of traders sitting with held profits) Ok I see on the charts I posted that GJ just zero'd out profit holders in the 35 area and now made a new momo up on the hourly along with making a double bottom. Price is headed for the 25 zl which is a H4 H1 target. This is where I loose it. How can I tell if after the 25 zl gets hit that price will not continue up to the short holders or going to stop at the 25 area and continue down to the long holders. I did look at the H4 and there is a momo down bar so what I would say since we have a hourly momo up into a down h4 momo a long would not be advised. Anyway this is the last part of my puzzle how to determine directon after a zl has beeen hit. I posted GJ chart H4 and H1 for an example.


"This is where I loose it. How can I tell if after the 25 zl gets hit that price will not continue up to the short holders or going to stop at the 25 area and continue down to the long holders. "

i don't know--- you cant know--- no one knows (except maybe MO)-----. if someone figures that out please let me know. All i know is the market lives to zero out other traders, it moves to and from each area and sometimes the area holds and sometimes it does not.

you have to think about what all the other traders did and are thinking about doing. and then trade off of their emotions. it is all about held profit and momentum.

so (keep in mind this is friday afternoon)

this what i would be looking at and thinking-- i don't trade this pair but this is what i would think when i look at this chart

in your 4 hr chart example if i saw the double bottom and notice the momo slowing into it.
Image

so if i was thinking of trading long i would dial down and look for a reason to trade long
Image
Image
if i was only referencing the h4 as far as held profit i would be targeting the magenta line. when price gets up there i would take my profit and then look inside and see whats happening to see if i am going to try and trade short back down to the yellow line.

if the PA and momo do not show that the magneta line is going to hold the price and we have momo up thru that area. Then i would be looking to get back in long( based on momo) and trade up to the next area of held profit--- which would be the red line.
Image


I am not sure i can explain what i do---- hell i am not sure i even know what i am doing when i am doing it---------- i just look at where we are where we came from and where we are going next---based on held profit------- and then trade to and from those areas based on momo.

momo shows the way

held profit is the destination
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Postby es/pip » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:24 am

cfabian wrote:I'm having 30 pip mental stop. Probably it will be better to actually set a stop loss with the broker, as sometimes you can't close at your price, or simply are trapped in the belief price will turn in your favor and do not click the close button.

I tend not to look 5M. I'm more focused on how the candles in my trade's TF looks like.




es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:How you manage your stops/losses?

What´s your hard stop on all cases?

I didn't take that trade for same reason... specially as I'm having hard time to manage my stops and losses.


es/pip wrote:wasn't thrilled the way the h1 bar closed------ so i averaged into it

and

it was obvious that they were targeting the held profit on the 4hr

so i just rode it down with them



Image



right now hard stop is 20 pips

when a 5 min bar closes against me i do 1 of the following

1. exit then
2. try and get out at b/e
3. make a judgment call on how the 5 min bars are looking whether to stay in or not. if there is no 5 min momo and it closes against me sometimes i will stay in.

it is different every time

this is 1 of the reasons that zl/ mz is not a system or a method-------- it has some discretionary elements to it


what are u using for your hard stop?

are you watching the 5 min at all?

remember---------- zl/mz is not an entry trigger--- you dont just take it bec it is there


yeah i always set a hard stop. You never know what may happen. If something major happened u could be down 500 pips in a couple seconds.

like i was saying earlier, i want to see the trade go my way and then i watch on the time frame i am trading--- if it doesn't go my way i want to see why and be able to make a decision on how to get out---- you cant do that looking at a h4 bar.

i very rarely take a full stop. if it doesn't go my way then i just get out----- i can always get back in if it starts to go
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:37 am

es/pip wrote:
brettnchrism wrote:Ok I am waiting for my ah ha moment here. My first one was seeing how traders get zero'd out and I completely see that all over my charts with the help of blubb's z line indicator.

Now ES said (if this trade/area holds where is the next group of traders sitting with held profits) Ok I see on the charts I posted that GJ just zero'd out profit holders in the 35 area and now made a new momo up on the hourly along with making a double bottom. Price is headed for the 25 zl which is a H4 H1 target. This is where I loose it. How can I tell if after the 25 zl gets hit that price will not continue up to the short holders or going to stop at the 25 area and continue down to the long holders. I did look at the H4 and there is a momo down bar so what I would say since we have a hourly momo up into a down h4 momo a long would not be advised. Anyway this is the last part of my puzzle how to determine directon after a zl has beeen hit. I posted GJ chart H4 and H1 for an example.


"This is where I loose it. How can I tell if after the 25 zl gets hit that price will not continue up to the short holders or going to stop at the 25 area and continue down to the long holders. "

i don't know--- you cant know--- no one knows (except maybe MO)-----. if someone figures that out please let me know. All i know is the market lives to zero out other traders, it moves to and from each area and sometimes the area holds and sometimes it does not.

you have to think about what all the other traders did and are thinking about doing. and then trade off of their emotions. it is all about held profit and momentum.

so (keep in mind this is friday afternoon)

this what i would be looking at and thinking-- i don't trade this pair but this is what i would think when i look at this chart

in your 4 hr chart example if i saw the double bottom and notice the momo slowing into it.
Image

so if i was thinking of trading long i would dial down and look for a reason to trade long
Image
Image
if i was only referencing the h4 as far as held profit i would be targeting the magenta line. when price gets up there i would take my profit and then look inside and see whats happening to see if i am going to try and trade short back down to the yellow line.

if the PA and momo do not show that the magneta line is going to hold the price and we have momo up thru that area. Then i would be looking to get back in long( based on momo) and trade up to the next area of held profit--- which would be the red line.
Image


I am not sure i can explain what i do---- hell i am not sure i even know what i am doing when i am doing it---------- i just look at where we are where we came from and where we are going next---based on held profit------- and then trade to and from those areas based on momo.

momo shows the way

held profit is the destination


Excellent Post es/pip,
Very thorough.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 am

"i don't know--- you cant know--- no one knows (except maybe MO)" -ES/PIP

You could say that my trading is based on faith...

Faith is being certain of that which you hope for.

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Postby aliassmith » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:59 pm

Had some time to use vhands to simulate GBP/USD for Aug 10th to 14th. It was a rough one for me. I did manage to get 9% return with toooo many mistakes. Need to practice more of course and be more willing to let the losers go.

So with USD/JPY 34% and GBP/USD 9% not a bad overall return for the week. I don't think I'll have time to simulate EUR/USD and EUR/JPY. I really can't trade all of these pairs simultaneously because of margin limitations. My live results will most likely be a mix of the four pairs.

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