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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:17 am

Hi MO,

When you have time, would you please kind enough to comment on my comments?

Have a good Independence Day holiday :)

Thanks.

Lis

monolisa wrote:Hi MO,

I hope you don't mind clarifying some of the points below. I have made some comments about them.

I just want to understand thoroughly the concepts you are trying to describe. I may be a slow learner but I am keen to know.


Three candles show the way
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie
Several candles show the way
they are but three
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie

Comments:
I undertand that the candle period (time) varies and might not conform to the standard TF in MT4, but all three must have the same period. However, I am not sure of the exact nature of truth/lie and, specifically, the sequence of truth/lie among the 3 candles. Also, does the 2/3 truth and 1/3 lie apply to price as well?

You are always trading the truth found amidst a lie; taking the narrow road that leads toward reward.
The truth is the precursor and the event and the lie is the enclosure for the slaughtering of sheep.
The lie does not move toward or become truth
The truth is the the punishment for those that believe the lie.

Comments:
I try to understand this using logical thinking.
If the truth is within a lie, and assuming that there are 3 seperate events (3 candles) and 2 of them are the truth and one of them is the lie, how could it be possible? The only way possible is LIE-TRUTH-LIE. Or are you saying the truth is within the LIE candle?
Second sentence is a bit easier to understand. I would think TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH fits the bill, right?
Third sentence is really perplexing. The only configuration possible is TRUTH-TRUTH-LIE (lie does not move toward or become truth)
Last sentence - if you believe the lie, the truth will seek you out and destroy you! :) TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH!!

Yes, only instead of watching a specific time frame the time and magnitude of the period is based on the event and not decided by the trader.
Comments:
What is the event? Is it the candlestick of specific time period?

You would see a burst of momentum and mark where it starts to die off.
If from start to finish that were 9 hours then you would set the period converter to start drawing bars 9 hours prior to the momentum and create 9 hour bars.
As far as price is concerned, a real move is when price moves further than the largest correction that returned to the extreme.

Comments:
I see a burst of momentum. Then I mark the momo candle and count until the highest high or lowest low mark. I then add 1 to the count (to include the pre-momo candle) and the final number is the custom period I am concentrating on. Is it correct?
Regarding real move/correction, if price trends down and retraces, the correction range is the point between the lowest low and the highest point of the correction. When price returns to the extreme (ie. the lowest low) and breaks that level then there's the real move. Is that right?

Thanks in advance.

Lis
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Maybe this will make for a better example:

Image

Do you want to go long or short?

You want to go back to bed right?

Traders are hungry for movement yet movement never seems to pay them off.

IF YOU SEE LOSS THEN YOU CAN SEE PROFIT

The masses are going to buy

Some will be stopped and others will be sitting with a profit

Those that are sitting with a profit will give most or all of it back

How foolish are those that lock themselves in their own little trading bubble and ignore the experiences of others.

Do you not see that their laments are treasure maps?

I don't have to learn their system as all traders are the same; they want the market to move.

Where there is a burst of movement there are traders sitting with profit

Where there are traders sitting with a profit there are traders waiting to give it all back.

The only time that the market does not come back is when the big boys are sitting with a cushion of profit and are ready to move the market in a longer term direction.

The most money to be had is from traders sitting with a profit or trading along side the big boys.
If you are doing anything else then you are living a life of mediocrity.

That said...

What is an event?

An event is that which signals that traders are sitting with a profit.

An event is MOVEMENT.

There are only two things you are thinking about after movement and I am sure that you can guess by now what they are.







monolisa wrote:Hi MO,

I hope you don't mind clarifying some of the points below. I have made some comments about them.

I just want to understand thoroughly the concepts you are trying to describe. I may be a slow learner but I am keen to know.


Three candles show the way
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie
Several candles show the way
they are but three
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie

Comments:
I undertand that the candle period (time) varies and might not conform to the standard TF in MT4, but all three must have the same period. However, I am not sure of the exact nature of truth/lie and, specifically, the sequence of truth/lie among the 3 candles. Also, does the 2/3 truth and 1/3 lie apply to price as well?

You are always trading the truth found amidst a lie; taking the narrow road that leads toward reward.
The truth is the precursor and the event and the lie is the enclosure for the slaughtering of sheep.
The lie does not move toward or become truth
The truth is the the punishment for those that believe the lie.

Comments:
I try to understand this using logical thinking.
If the truth is within a lie, and assuming that there are 3 seperate events (3 candles) and 2 of them are the truth and one of them is the lie, how could it be possible? The only way possible is LIE-TRUTH-LIE. Or are you saying the truth is within the LIE candle?
Second sentence is a bit easier to understand. I would think TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH fits the bill, right?
Third sentence is really perplexing. The only configuration possible is TRUTH-TRUTH-LIE (lie does not move toward or become truth)
Last sentence - if you believe the lie, the truth will seek you out and destroy you! :) TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH!!

Yes, only instead of watching a specific time frame the time and magnitude of the period is based on the event and not decided by the trader.
Comments:
What is the event? Is it the candlestick of specific time period?

You would see a burst of momentum and mark where it starts to die off.
If from start to finish that were 9 hours then you would set the period converter to start drawing bars 9 hours prior to the momentum and create 9 hour bars.
As far as price is concerned, a real move is when price moves further than the largest correction that returned to the extreme.

Comments:
I see a burst of momentum. Then I mark the momo candle and count until the highest high or lowest low mark. I then add 1 to the count (to include the pre-momo candle) and the final number is the custom period I am concentrating on. Is it correct?
Regarding real move/correction, if price trends down and retraces, the correction range is the point between the lowest low and the highest point of the correction. When price returns to the extreme (ie. the lowest low) and breaks that level then there's the real move. Is that right?

Thanks in advance.

Lis

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Postby MightyOne » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:58 pm

Thanks Dee for finding and fixing the bug!

deeforex wrote:
MightyOne wrote:I know my way around period converters...I tried every which way to get the price to shift and it is just not shifting.


I'm not sure why my initial tests showed that it was working and so did Monalisa's. I tried loading them again with your example of a 9hr bar. That did not prove fruitful. I looked through the code and saw that there's a bug in there.

Code: Select all

   shift = Period() * 60 * TimeShift;
//i_time = (Time[start_pos]-shift)/ps; //WRONG!!!
   i_time = (Time[start_pos-shift])/ps; //Correction, deeforex


if TRO gets a chance, he might want to confirm that the correction I made is in fact correct. I'm not a coder.

I took these screen shots and they seem to say that everything is ok now.

The 1 hr chart that I loaded period converter onto. broker, MBTrading
Image

TimeShift equal -1 (negative 1), previous hourly bar
Image

TimeShift equal 1 (positive 1), "future" hourly bar
Image

MO, when you get a moment, could you please test to see if this corrected version works? I will be very interested to see how you are using this :wink:


dee

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:13 pm

Hi MO,

Indeed, everyone crave for movement (ie. action and excitment).

So we (the 5% of traders) are taking advantage of those traders (the rest - 95%) who "volunteered" to give away the profit? As soon as their profits are totally obliterated we will make our move? In some way are we "shadowing" how the big boys trade?

When the market doesn't come back and the big boys are sitting with a cushion of profits, then the "trend" is turned (eg. bull to bear). Now what are the signs that they are with profits and decided to turn the market the other way? Does the momentum after a highest high (or lowest low) show the way?

There's movement (the event, the momentum), followed by the correction (the shakeup) and eventually the real move (the truth) - the trilogy.

The mighty zone trade is basically catching the end of the shakeup and jumping on the boat to the truth?

So is it possible to trade the event and not get burnt (ie. not giving away our profits like others after a burst of momentum (breakout))?

Thanks for your help.

Lis

MightyOne wrote:Maybe this will make for a better example:

Image

Do you want to go long or short?

You want to go back to bed right?

Traders are hungry for movement yet movement never seems to pay them off.

IF YOU SEE LOSS THEN YOU CAN SEE PROFIT

The masses are going to buy

Some will be stopped and others will be sitting with a profit

Those that are sitting with a profit will give most or all of it back

How foolish are those that lock themselves in their own little trading bubble and ignore the experiences of others.

Do you not see that their laments are treasure maps?

I don't have to learn their system as all traders are the same; they want the market to move.

Where there is a burst of movement there are traders sitting with profit

Where there are traders sitting with a profit there are traders waiting to give it all back.

The only time that the market does not come back is when the big boys are sitting with a cushion of profit and are ready to move the market in a longer term direction.

The most money to be had is from traders sitting with a profit or trading along side the big boys.
If you are doing anything else then you are living a life of mediocrity.

That said...

What is an event?

An event is that which signals that traders are sitting with a profit.

An event is MOVEMENT.

There are only two things you are thinking about after movement and I am sure that you can guess by now what they are.







monolisa wrote:Hi MO,

I hope you don't mind clarifying some of the points below. I have made some comments about them.

I just want to understand thoroughly the concepts you are trying to describe. I may be a slow learner but I am keen to know.


Three candles show the way
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie
Several candles show the way
they are but three
2/3 truth and 1/3 lie

Comments:
I undertand that the candle period (time) varies and might not conform to the standard TF in MT4, but all three must have the same period. However, I am not sure of the exact nature of truth/lie and, specifically, the sequence of truth/lie among the 3 candles. Also, does the 2/3 truth and 1/3 lie apply to price as well?

You are always trading the truth found amidst a lie; taking the narrow road that leads toward reward.
The truth is the precursor and the event and the lie is the enclosure for the slaughtering of sheep.
The lie does not move toward or become truth
The truth is the the punishment for those that believe the lie.

Comments:
I try to understand this using logical thinking.
If the truth is within a lie, and assuming that there are 3 seperate events (3 candles) and 2 of them are the truth and one of them is the lie, how could it be possible? The only way possible is LIE-TRUTH-LIE. Or are you saying the truth is within the LIE candle?
Second sentence is a bit easier to understand. I would think TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH fits the bill, right?
Third sentence is really perplexing. The only configuration possible is TRUTH-TRUTH-LIE (lie does not move toward or become truth)
Last sentence - if you believe the lie, the truth will seek you out and destroy you! :) TRUTH-LIE-TRUTH!!

Yes, only instead of watching a specific time frame the time and magnitude of the period is based on the event and not decided by the trader.
Comments:
What is the event? Is it the candlestick of specific time period?

You would see a burst of momentum and mark where it starts to die off.
If from start to finish that were 9 hours then you would set the period converter to start drawing bars 9 hours prior to the momentum and create 9 hour bars.
As far as price is concerned, a real move is when price moves further than the largest correction that returned to the extreme.

Comments:
I see a burst of momentum. Then I mark the momo candle and count until the highest high or lowest low mark. I then add 1 to the count (to include the pre-momo candle) and the final number is the custom period I am concentrating on. Is it correct?
Regarding real move/correction, if price trends down and retraces, the correction range is the point between the lowest low and the highest point of the correction. When price returns to the extreme (ie. the lowest low) and breaks that level then there's the real move. Is that right?

Thanks in advance.

Lis
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:49 pm

So is it possible to trade the event and not get burnt?

Thanks for your help.

Lis


A short term trade would have to turn into a larger move and longer term trade.

Retreat prior to a correction and then enter in the previous direction.

Trading is a delicate balance between short term momentum and long term position.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:44 pm

MightyOne wrote: So is it possible to trade the event and not get burnt?

Thanks for your help.

Lis


A short term trade would have to turn into a larger move and longer term trade.

Retreat prior to a correction and then enter in the previous direction.

Trading is a delicate balance between short term momentum and long term position.


TRO's said it before.

#1New high/low (breakout)
#2Reversal from (correction)
#3Consolidaton (my addition)
#4Return to New high/low (main trend)

Is there anything else a market can do? reallly?
I think there are tallented individuals that trade them ALL
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby MightyOne » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:43 pm

The question was whether or not it is possible to trade the momo bar (event) and not get burnt.

If you read a few posts back where I described the actions traders should take if they want to be more than mediocre then you would know that we are waiting for MOVEMENT ie MOMENTUM.

So if you are waiting for momentum and momentum is defined by a CLOSED body then how do you trade the soon to be momentum candle?

1. LUCK
2. Momentum of a smaller time frame and holding until the longer term close.

What usually happens after momentum?

Traders are sitting with profit.

What usually happens when traders are sitting with a profit?

Do you really need to know anything else?

Position in the longer term picture would be nice!

Can you trade chart formations, breakouts, congestion, and trends?

Of course you can...

But that is not what I am talking about here.

To recap:

1. I am a postmomentum trader
2. postmomentum traders wait for movement as a sign of both activity and held profits.
3. We can trade in either direction AFTER movement
4. Our only tools are movement, support, resistance, & retracement.

PS: If you are talented enough to trade without market movement then by all means ;)



prochargedmopar wrote:
MightyOne wrote: So is it possible to trade the event and not get burnt?

Thanks for your help.

Lis


A short term trade would have to turn into a larger move and longer term trade.

Retreat prior to a correction and then enter in the previous direction.

Trading is a delicate balance between short term momentum and long term position.


TRO's said it before.

#1New high/low (breakout)
#2Reversal from (correction)
#3Consolidaton (my addition)
#4Return to New high/low (main trend)

Is there anything else a market can do? reallly?
I think there are tallented individuals that trade them ALL

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Postby PTG » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:26 pm

All you need is the desire to make beautiful things happen on canvas.
Welcome to the joy of painting :shock: :D

Download Bob Ross paintings - erm - sorry, got that mixed up :shock:

Download Joe Ross material here: CLICK CLICK CLICK

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Postby maciekkov » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:43 pm

TheRumpledOne wrote:Why can't we see what price is doing?

Image

Price is either moving up, moving down or not moving at all.

What is wrong with our eyes that we can't see what price is doing?

Image

It's so simple, price is either moving or standing still.

Image

Why do we need colors to know which way price is moving?

Image

Does adding a line really make it easier to see what price is doing?

Image

Well, if adding one line makes it easier then adding more lines should make it even easier, right?

Image

Why can't our eyes see the "trend"?

Image

Maybe adding another chart will help us see...

Image

Naturally, if adding another chart makes it easier, we should add more.

Image

If only someone would tell us the "magic" numbers to use...

Image

Price either climbs up or down a "stair".

Image

You mean to tell me I can think of price going up and down stairs?

IT CAN'T BE THAT SIMPLE!!


Tro but how we can know how many steps have this stairs?i see how price move up or down i see wicks candle its mean false move and this is losers we should playing on body candel then we will be in profit,but i dont see what price is doing ,if you see that why you dont tell this for us .you made so many indactors why??if it is so simple we dont need any idactors just tell what price is doing,price bounced between lines 00 25 75 i now that because i see that but when i read your post COULD YOU SEE THAT or open your eye i dont get it.i know all indactors like OS MACD MA and more they are lagging i dont use that i use only this horizontal lines because price move between horizontal lines but somtimes price cross 3 lines that was 75 pips and i dont know when price will be doing so big move i should hold but i close when i have 25 pips or smaller.i still try realy but i cant see where price move now i still thinking i have only lucky in this trade:(

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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:56 am

You can't know AHEAD OF TIME.

I code indicators because I can. I see things and I code them. I get an idea, I code it. I code to learn others' systems.

You are correct. You were lucky. Smile.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

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