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prochargedmopar
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Postby prochargedmopar » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:05 am

Humble,
Deeforex has a document with all his posts in it from Dec. 12, his first.
It's updated to March 10th and is 17.4 meg file.
Not sure where she posted it to download.
Procharged.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:58 am

prochargedmopar wrote:Humble,
Deeforex has a document with all his posts in it from Dec. 12, his first.
It's updated to March 10th and is 17.4 meg file.
Not sure where she posted it to download.
Procharged.


There really is no need to go back in time:

1. Body in the direction of profit.
2. Wick in the direction of loss.

A. Trade long above the bullish momentum bar (vise versa)
B. If price retraces wait for it to go into the Mighty Zone and
then trade long from a smaller TF as price starts to rally (vise versa).

Trading short term requires timing.

Trading long term requires strategy and the ability to endure the chaos
and see your way to the goal.

Successful longer term trading reminds me of this movie I saw where two soldiers where on the battlefield.
The enemy plunged his sword right through the body of the hero and the hero walked forward deeper into the sword until he was in striking distance of the enemy and he killed the soldier before he died.

DETERMINATION TO REACH YOUR GOAL NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS.

DIE TRYING!
:shock:

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Postby prochargedmopar » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:18 am

I've been thinking about the FULL Stops.
What if I close out early but make a rule that I MUST re-enter at a better price by at least 2 pips if the price doesn't actually exceed my combined total stop limit. At which point I'd re-orientate for the next go round.
Save lots of pipage and you could still increase your stop values of re-entrance.
Pro
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:18 am

pierre23 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
pierre23 wrote:Short at 79, out at 02. A good gain.

Image

MO, you say to add profit to your SL and continue trading with the big picture. What happens if that retrace is large enough to hit your SL, does that not bring you back to square one minus your initial stop?

eg. If you risk 2% over 10 pips and add 20 pips in profit then
you are risking the initial 10 and the 20 pips for a 30sl.

The retrace hits your 30sl, taking you back to the start minus 10pips to your account.


The only way price will ever reach your stop is if you entered and were not in profit to exit and inflate your stop.
On a large move against you you would be out and then you would re enter as it started to turn around.
Or you would be wrong immediately and let price move to your stop if that is where it was going.

Yes, you would lose 2%
...

What you are risking is what you are risking, you either make good entry decisions and take a profit before retrace or you might take a loss.

Too often traders say to them selves "ahh I'll move my SL to break even" or "I'll lock in a small profit" and they just let price come back
on them because they are comfortable.
If professional poker players are making more money than you then there is some thing seriously wrong with what you are doing!

If you were up 17 pips and price suddenly dropped to +9 you would not complain.

But If you exited at +17, increased your stop to 26 and reentered
at 9 suddenly you are thinking about how you were in profit and
might end up with a loss.

Is it not true that your intent was to hold to your target/goal?

Is it not true that price retraced lowering the probability that
you would achieve your goal due to a smaller market gyration taking you out?

Corrections in your account = The Anti Goal :evil:


I am only trying to retrain your mind for success :shock:

Once you understand the concept and plan your strategy around it
then you will no longer be dreaming of a 5% weekly gain (in fact you may even add zeros to it in reality).


I do see where you're coming from. Reinvesting profits into your stop gives you a better take in the market, allowing bigger retraces with only your initial risk of 2% and then heading back into the market to take more profit, rinse and repeat.

But imagine if you've done 5 great trades, reinvesting each time into your SL (and it has worked! the 3rd trade if you had not reinvested you would have been stopped out!). Now you're planning on one more trade to finish the day off. Suddenly the market completely changes against you -- smashes straight through your SL of the initial 2%+profit from 5 trades. After having a brilliant trading day, one bad trade takes you into minus 2% for the day.

I do see how it CAN help out by reinvesting - but maybe not all your profit?.. maybe 50 or 30% of your profit you can add to your next trades SL.. that way if you get stopped out you'll still be ahead.

comments?


1. I have several years of trading the big picture under my belt.

2. My longest trade is just over 4 years long while trading Coffee.

3. My largest single day gain is 1,115%

4. The worst trading year of my life I ended the year at +140%

I understand your fears of losing pennies, but I think you should stay focused on the dollars.

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:26 am

prochargedmopar wrote:I've been thinking about the FULL Stops.
What if I close out early but make a rule that I MUST re-enter at a better price by at least 2 pips if the price doesn't actually exceed my combined total stop limit. At which point I'd re-orientate for the next go round.
Save lots of pipage and you could still increase your stop values of re-entrance.
Pro


You guys do whatever floats your boat :lol:

As my father always says,"I let them do their own thing until they are so frustrated that they are about to have a nervous breakdown. I then walk up to them and say,"hey buddy you want me to show you how its done?"

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Postby pierre23 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:54 am

MightyOne wrote:
pierre23 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
pierre23 wrote:Short at 79, out at 02. A good gain.

Image

MO, you say to add profit to your SL and continue trading with the big picture. What happens if that retrace is large enough to hit your SL, does that not bring you back to square one minus your initial stop?

eg. If you risk 2% over 10 pips and add 20 pips in profit then
you are risking the initial 10 and the 20 pips for a 30sl.

The retrace hits your 30sl, taking you back to the start minus 10pips to your account.


The only way price will ever reach your stop is if you entered and were not in profit to exit and inflate your stop.
On a large move against you you would be out and then you would re enter as it started to turn around.
Or you would be wrong immediately and let price move to your stop if that is where it was going.

Yes, you would lose 2%
...

What you are risking is what you are risking, you either make good entry decisions and take a profit before retrace or you might take a loss.

Too often traders say to them selves "ahh I'll move my SL to break even" or "I'll lock in a small profit" and they just let price come back
on them because they are comfortable.
If professional poker players are making more money than you then there is some thing seriously wrong with what you are doing!

If you were up 17 pips and price suddenly dropped to +9 you would not complain.

But If you exited at +17, increased your stop to 26 and reentered
at 9 suddenly you are thinking about how you were in profit and
might end up with a loss.

Is it not true that your intent was to hold to your target/goal?

Is it not true that price retraced lowering the probability that
you would achieve your goal due to a smaller market gyration taking you out?

Corrections in your account = The Anti Goal :evil:


I am only trying to retrain your mind for success :shock:

Once you understand the concept and plan your strategy around it
then you will no longer be dreaming of a 5% weekly gain (in fact you may even add zeros to it in reality).


I do see where you're coming from. Reinvesting profits into your stop gives you a better take in the market, allowing bigger retraces with only your initial risk of 2% and then heading back into the market to take more profit, rinse and repeat.

But imagine if you've done 5 great trades, reinvesting each time into your SL (and it has worked! the 3rd trade if you had not reinvested you would have been stopped out!). Now you're planning on one more trade to finish the day off. Suddenly the market completely changes against you -- smashes straight through your SL of the initial 2%+profit from 5 trades. After having a brilliant trading day, one bad trade takes you into minus 2% for the day.

I do see how it CAN help out by reinvesting - but maybe not all your profit?.. maybe 50 or 30% of your profit you can add to your next trades SL.. that way if you get stopped out you'll still be ahead.

comments?


1. I have several years of trading the big picture under my belt.

2. My longest trade is just over 4 years long while trading Coffee.

3. My largest single day gain is 1,115%

4. The worst trading year of my life I ended the year at +140%

I understand your fears of losing pennies, but I think you should stay focused on the dollars.


I wasn't challenging you or your experience in trading. And I wasn't disputing your advice or methods, but maybe this way of compounding profits into stop losses may be for a more experienced trader who can get 10, 20, 30 consecutive wins, increasing profits.

It's no good if you win 2, lose 1, win 2, lose 1.

It's a great method for a consistant and confident trader. I'm not at that level yet (maybe even psychologically).

With experience comes more confidence. I have time on my side :wink:

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Postby es/pip » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:24 am

Humble wrote:MO pity you didn't have your own thread for this. As it is your posts are intermingled with other trading ideas and indicators.

Others of your following are posting charts of successful trades, that seem to be using a reversal bar as the momentum bar, from which they place a trade. Is this correct? My understanding of a momentum bar would be that it needs to be a continuation bar.


im sure you are not surprised no one is jumping out of their chair to answer your q's


after stating this

you say

"That's a bit rich given the trouble you have explaining it.

I joined with the monica "Humble" to remind me be to be so when posting here, as I have never felt as frustrated as I do when reading your explanations. The reason I try so hard to follow you is because I appreciate MO's efforts here and believe in what he wants to teach us and do not want in any way to discourage his efforts by pointing out that it's dam near impossible to pick up the depth of his posts from his explanations. "


"reversal bar as the momentum bar"----???????????????

there is no "explaining it"---- it is what it is

look bud

i read the same posts u did as did dragon, macro and pierre.

by some "miracle" we all see it

you say" by no lack of my efforts"

i say look harder

and by no means----especially after the hrs i spent on this and your previous post am i going to lay out a children's book with directions for you

MO didn't lay it out on a platter for me or dragon

and the funny thing is it is laid out on a platter----if you will

i was going to let this whole thing go( ie your prev post)--------turns out i am still a tad bit pissed about it

sue me

but as contradictory as this whole post may seem------at the same time i wouldn't have made it if i still didn't want you to be able to SEE it regardless of what you said before.

MO paraphrased what i was trying to say earlier

not sure if this is exact-------"the reason you don't see it is bec you don't put what i have on my charts on yours"

and since my annotations and posts have nothing to do with what MO has taught

i will leave you with this for food for thought

and yes i sat thru those pullbacks----why bec i was already up 40% roi on the day---and now it is a tad bit higher

i challenge you to get your mind out of the way and open your eyes to what is right in front of you-- and actually spend some time on it instead of asking for it

Image

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:52 am

pierre23 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
pierre23 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
pierre23 wrote:Short at 79, out at 02. A good gain.

Image

MO, you say to add profit to your SL and continue trading with the big picture. What happens if that retrace is large enough to hit your SL, does that not bring you back to square one minus your initial stop?

eg. If you risk 2% over 10 pips and add 20 pips in profit then
you are risking the initial 10 and the 20 pips for a 30sl.

The retrace hits your 30sl, taking you back to the start minus 10pips to your account.


The only way price will ever reach your stop is if you entered and were not in profit to exit and inflate your stop.
On a large move against you you would be out and then you would re enter as it started to turn around.
Or you would be wrong immediately and let price move to your stop if that is where it was going.

Yes, you would lose 2%
...

What you are risking is what you are risking, you either make good entry decisions and take a profit before retrace or you might take a loss.

Too often traders say to them selves "ahh I'll move my SL to break even" or "I'll lock in a small profit" and they just let price come back
on them because they are comfortable.
If professional poker players are making more money than you then there is some thing seriously wrong with what you are doing!

If you were up 17 pips and price suddenly dropped to +9 you would not complain.

But If you exited at +17, increased your stop to 26 and reentered
at 9 suddenly you are thinking about how you were in profit and
might end up with a loss.

Is it not true that your intent was to hold to your target/goal?

Is it not true that price retraced lowering the probability that
you would achieve your goal due to a smaller market gyration taking you out?

Corrections in your account = The Anti Goal :evil:


I am only trying to retrain your mind for success :shock:

Once you understand the concept and plan your strategy around it
then you will no longer be dreaming of a 5% weekly gain (in fact you may even add zeros to it in reality).


I do see where you're coming from. Reinvesting profits into your stop gives you a better take in the market, allowing bigger retraces with only your initial risk of 2% and then heading back into the market to take more profit, rinse and repeat.

But imagine if you've done 5 great trades, reinvesting each time into your SL (and it has worked! the 3rd trade if you had not reinvested you would have been stopped out!). Now you're planning on one more trade to finish the day off. Suddenly the market completely changes against you -- smashes straight through your SL of the initial 2%+profit from 5 trades. After having a brilliant trading day, one bad trade takes you into minus 2% for the day.

I do see how it CAN help out by reinvesting - but maybe not all your profit?.. maybe 50 or 30% of your profit you can add to your next trades SL.. that way if you get stopped out you'll still be ahead.

comments?


1. I have several years of trading the big picture under my belt.

2. My longest trade is just over 4 years long while trading Coffee.

3. My largest single day gain is 1,115%

4. The worst trading year of my life I ended the year at +140%

I understand your fears of losing pennies, but I think you should stay focused on the dollars.


I wasn't challenging you or your experience in trading. And I wasn't disputing your advice or methods, but maybe this way of compounding profits into stop losses may be for a more experienced trader who can get 10, 20, 30 consecutive wins, increasing profits.

It's no good if you win 2, lose 1, win 2, lose 1.

It's a great method for a consistant and confident trader. I'm not at that level yet (maybe even psychologically).

With experience comes more confidence. I have time on my side :wink:


This reminds me of when I was 19 and I mentioned to one of my father's employees that I had made $13,000 that morning.
Their reply was that I could have just as easily lost $13,000.

All things are not equal!

You are only exiting to avoid a correction you are not doing anything fancy.

You cannot exit at a loss there for after each success you become significantly more difficult to stop out.

You don't need a gagillion successful trades in a row you only need to survive your errors in judgment and that becomes more easy after each inflation of your SL.

The only "win" is reaching your goal and after you have done this one time you will never complain about losses ever again.

If it is not for you then it is not for you.

I am only posting this because PRO said that he wanted a path to success and not a trading system...

so here is the path to success.

Weather you walk the path or not is of no concern to me.

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:08 am

es/pip wrote:
Humble wrote:MO pity you didn't have your own thread for this. As it is your posts are intermingled with other trading ideas and indicators.

Others of your following are posting charts of successful trades, that seem to be using a reversal bar as the momentum bar, from which they place a trade. Is this correct? My understanding of a momentum bar would be that it needs to be a continuation bar.


im sure you are not surprised no one is jumping out of their chair to answer your q's


after stating this

you say

"That's a bit rich given the trouble you have explaining it.

I joined with the monica "Humble" to remind me be to be so when posting here, as I have never felt as frustrated as I do when reading your explanations. The reason I try so hard to follow you is because I appreciate MO's efforts here and believe in what he wants to teach us and do not want in any way to discourage his efforts by pointing out that it's dam near impossible to pick up the depth of his posts from his explanations. "


"reversal bar as the momentum bar"----???????????????

there is no "explaining it"---- it is what it is

look bud

i read the same posts u did as did dragon, macro and pierre.

by some "miracle" we all see it

you say" by no lack of my efforts"

i say look harder

and by no means----especially after the hrs i spent on this and your previous post am i going to lay out a children's book with directions for you

MO didn't lay it out on a platter for me or dragon

and the funny thing is it is laid out on a platter----if you will

i was going to let this whole thing go( ie your prev post)--------turns out i am still a tad bit pissed about it

sue me

but as contradictory as this whole post may seem------at the same time i wouldn't have made it if i still didn't want you to be able to SEE it regardless of what you said before.

MO paraphrased what i was trying to say earlier

not sure if this is exact-------"the reason you don't see it is bec you don't put what i have on my charts on yours"

and since my annotations and posts have nothing to do with what MO has taught

i will leave you with this for food for thought

and yes i sat thru those pullbacks----why bec i was already up 40% roi on the day---and now it is a tad bit higher

i challenge you to get your mind out of the way and open your eyes to what is right in front of you-- and actually spend some time on it instead of asking for it

Image


There there es / pip there is no need for violence :wink:

I don't even under stand how you can be pissed off while sitting with a 40% gain unless it is 2am and you have no beer in the fridge or whiskey in the bar room.

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prochargedmopar
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Postby prochargedmopar » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:11 am

I am only posting this because PRO said that he wanted a path to success and not a trading system...

so here is the path to success.

Weather you walk the path or not is of no concern to me.

I'm going to walk the path, run parts where possible.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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