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Fxtraveller
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Postby Fxtraveller » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:01 pm

MightyOne wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:Dude,

I called that LIVE in a skype chat room as a fake breakout looking at an M1/m5 chart.
Yeah, I was looking at a M30/h4 chart also.
BUT.
You know what?
It'don't mean s**t.

Why,
Because you have to take the trade.
You have to hold the trade.
AND, you have to exit the trade with profit.

Sorry, but I"m not in a very good mood.


Are not you a bowl or cherries :lol:

There was an 18 minute window where you could have shorted with a draw down of 8 pips and a maximum possible draw down of 15 pips (again closing within 8 pips).

The price action was by no trader's definition violent or as scary as it looks on the 30 minute chart.

So the question is why didn't you take the trade? (rhetorical)

Had I had time to teach, mark charts, send files, and trade 2 accounts at the same time I would have, but that is beyond my level of dexterity.


Yum! I like cherries :)

Hey Mightyone... Couldn't you set up a manager type account and trade 2 accounts at the same time? Don't know if MBT has that but I have seen other that do. That way you could trade one large and also the micro account at the same time.

Then you will have plenty of time to " teach, mark charts, send files" :D


If I am going to set up anything new It is going to be a Nadex account for binary options (what we should all be using, but for one reason or the other do not :lol:)

If you think about it it makes perfect sense:

What do we get paid for?

Correct analysis.

What stands in the way of of getting paid?

spikes, stop running, market timing, and on rare occasion being wrong ;)

What if you could analyze and place a trade that does not require margin (can buy more), has known risk, cannot be stopped out, and can be liquidated at any time prior to expiry which can be as far out as a week from today?

Maybe its not clear...all that money you are wasting by making your stop loss larger can be used to increase your position size on a trade that has ALL WEEK to be correct.
Maybe its not clear...8, 10, & 15 to 1 returns could be expected, not part of a daydream.

There is the problem of there being a floor making your maximum profit 80 or so pips, but how many of you grab 100 pip moves?
And if you reach the floor you can just roll your position into an option with a lower floor.

A lot of times it is not about your analysis, but what you use to get the job done.

That said :lol: an outright position does have advantages that cannot be ignored, some of which are:

1. Tight spreads
2. Low commissions
3. Extremely high liquidity
4. Automatic rollover
5. Possibility of positive interest ;)
6. Trades can be held forever

You have to decide which is right for you.


aiming for 100 pip moves?

I remember you stating that it is vastly more profitable to increase the position size and aim for 20-30 pips....

Have I overlooked something?

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:56 pm

Fxtraveller wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:Dude,

I called that LIVE in a skype chat room as a fake breakout looking at an M1/m5 chart.
Yeah, I was looking at a M30/h4 chart also.
BUT.
You know what?
It'don't mean s**t.

Why,
Because you have to take the trade.
You have to hold the trade.
AND, you have to exit the trade with profit.

Sorry, but I"m not in a very good mood.


Are not you a bowl or cherries :lol:

There was an 18 minute window where you could have shorted with a draw down of 8 pips and a maximum possible draw down of 15 pips (again closing within 8 pips).

The price action was by no trader's definition violent or as scary as it looks on the 30 minute chart.

So the question is why didn't you take the trade? (rhetorical)

Had I had time to teach, mark charts, send files, and trade 2 accounts at the same time I would have, but that is beyond my level of dexterity.


Yum! I like cherries :)

Hey Mightyone... Couldn't you set up a manager type account and trade 2 accounts at the same time? Don't know if MBT has that but I have seen other that do. That way you could trade one large and also the micro account at the same time.

Then you will have plenty of time to " teach, mark charts, send files" :D


If I am going to set up anything new It is going to be a Nadex account for binary options (what we should all be using, but for one reason or the other do not :lol:)

If you think about it it makes perfect sense:

What do we get paid for?

Correct analysis.

What stands in the way of of getting paid?

spikes, stop running, market timing, and on rare occasion being wrong ;)

What if you could analyze and place a trade that does not require margin (can buy more), has known risk, cannot be stopped out, and can be liquidated at any time prior to expiry which can be as far out as a week from today?

Maybe its not clear...all that money you are wasting by making your stop loss larger can be used to increase your position size on a trade that has ALL WEEK to be correct.
Maybe its not clear...8, 10, & 15 to 1 returns could be expected, not part of a daydream.

There is the problem of there being a floor making your maximum profit 80 or so pips, but how many of you grab 100 pip moves?
And if you reach the floor you can just roll your position into an option with a lower floor.

A lot of times it is not about your analysis, but what you use to get the job done.

That said :lol: an outright position does have advantages that cannot be ignored, some of which are:

1. Tight spreads
2. Low commissions
3. Extremely high liquidity
4. Automatic rollover
5. Possibility of positive interest ;)
6. Trades can be held forever

You have to decide which is right for you.


aiming for 100 pip moves?

I remember you stating that it is vastly more profitable to increase the position size and aim for 20-30 pips....

Have I overlooked something?


With a very high accuracy rate that is correct.

The faster you can add lots the faster your account will grow

But there is another way to grow your account that is even faster than adding lots at every opportunity, but since the post was talking about Binary Options I'll go with an option example:

You have $1,000 and can trade 10 options (1 standard lot)

You are entering 20 pips from the boundaries for a $200 risk per trade and are targeting 80 pips or $800.

If you use maximum leverage you can reach $10,440 in 5 consecutive winning trades (possibly 1,000% in fewer than 1 weeks time).

Considering that you have all week to be correct 5 consecutive winning trades shouldn't be that difficult.

Let us say that you have $2,000 and are using $1,000 to maintain a trade size of 1 standard lot until you lose 50%.
What is the probability that you will place 5 consecutive good trades before accumulating 10 losers if you cannot be stopped out?

Where else is it possible to make 100% per day?

That would usually take a $40,000 account (20x more) making 5% per day to make that kind of money.

$10,440 * 52 = $542,880 a year (less losses)

With an account size of $40,000 you would likely never run out of money and that means that the remaining $500,000 is yours to spend.

If you were to grind that out with 20-30 pip gains in spot Forex then you would be trading around the clock for a year.

Grind endlessly

Make money effortlessly

Grind

No grind

hmmmm...

Same thing goes for targeting big pips in spot.

Do you want to sit there glued to the screen trading every swing or do you want to be in profit and simply looking for another entry in some
other pair and have plenty of time to cook some dinner and relax with a beer?

It is all up to you.

aliassmith
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Postby aliassmith » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:56 pm

MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote: ..... and possibly traders with 1,000+ posts on kreslik (gotta narrow the field some how).


Have another 800 odd posts to go hehe. PRO should be happy .... :wink:


Actually.
That would be like a dream, but I do not feel it is deserved at this time.

What are we going to do?
Look at charts.
Agree on a good entry from a MZ/ZL perspective.
Take the trade.
And then what?

Should I exit now?
How about now?
Maybe now?
Gotta be now, right?

I don't think MightyOne wants to hold hands with a virtual friend while they are in a trade.
Well, unless maybe that friend has measurements of 34,24,34!!!!

If a trader does not yet get the concepts laid out here, and are also able to apply what they know, then it would not do them much good anyway.

Now, if you are getting some pips, (20-50 pip runs) on a regular basis, Using what you've learned in the NLA thread, I'd say a little mentorship to tighten up your game would be worth his time.

Someone like dragon33, es/pip, ect would really get something out of it. They would have legitimate questions to ask and be able to ACT on what they learned.

Just my 2 cents (being my account isn't much bigger than that)
:twisted:


You think my analysis consists of Mighty Zone and Zero Lines?

Now that is comical :lol:

Everyone was looking at the wrong things so I broke off one little piece of wisdom and assigned rules to it so that they would not suffer severe draw down.

My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary.



"My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary. "

I don't understand how you do it 100% yet, but this statement alone is my guiding light of trading. I went through a rough spot trading recently. Once I got back to this type of analysis I was back on track.

Also, I was reading up on Binary options and I was wondering how you was thinking of applying them to make this 8 to 15 times returns. They seem like any other type of options with a cost based on strike price and intrinsic value plus time determining their value.

Thanks MightyOne without your interaction here I may have never been able to achieve amazing results.

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:30 pm

aliassmith wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote: ..... and possibly traders with 1,000+ posts on kreslik (gotta narrow the field some how).


Have another 800 odd posts to go hehe. PRO should be happy .... :wink:


Actually.
That would be like a dream, but I do not feel it is deserved at this time.

What are we going to do?
Look at charts.
Agree on a good entry from a MZ/ZL perspective.
Take the trade.
And then what?

Should I exit now?
How about now?
Maybe now?
Gotta be now, right?

I don't think MightyOne wants to hold hands with a virtual friend while they are in a trade.
Well, unless maybe that friend has measurements of 34,24,34!!!!

If a trader does not yet get the concepts laid out here, and are also able to apply what they know, then it would not do them much good anyway.

Now, if you are getting some pips, (20-50 pip runs) on a regular basis, Using what you've learned in the NLA thread, I'd say a little mentorship to tighten up your game would be worth his time.

Someone like dragon33, es/pip, ect would really get something out of it. They would have legitimate questions to ask and be able to ACT on what they learned.

Just my 2 cents (being my account isn't much bigger than that)
:twisted:


You think my analysis consists of Mighty Zone and Zero Lines?

Now that is comical :lol:

Everyone was looking at the wrong things so I broke off one little piece of wisdom and assigned rules to it so that they would not suffer severe draw down.

My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary.



"My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary. "

I don't understand how you do it 100% yet, but this statement alone is my guiding light of trading. I went through a rough spot trading recently. Once I got back to this type of analysis I was back on track.

Also, I was reading up on Binary options and I was wondering how you was thinking of applying them to make this 8 to 15 times returns. They seem like any other type of options with a cost based on strike price and intrinsic value plus time determining their value.

Thanks MightyOne without your interaction here I may have never been able to achieve amazing results.


You purchase options where price is beyond the boundaries and match them with your longer term analysis to do something similar to trading out of the money calls and puts.

Because the binary is out of the money and thus not losing or gaining pips it is next to worthless (risk = the spread) and thus the profit potential for said option is enormous should the option move back into the money.

If your risk is 5 pips and your exit is an 80 pip gain then you make 16 to 1 on your money.
If your risk is 7 pips with the same target you will make 11 to 1 on your money.

All that you do is this:

When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go short then short the strike that is 3 strikes lower.
When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go long then go long the strike that is 3 strikes higher.

You will be up to 20 pips out of the money and the options should be cheap. If you are targeting a 120 pip move then this really doesn't matter much to you especially since your risk will be the same as a scalpers.

If you are getting near to the end of your profit potential and you believe that price will continue to rise (maybe its a weekly trade) then liquidate the option and purchase the strike that is 3 strikes higher than the closest strike.

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:55 pm

MightyOne wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote: ..... and possibly traders with 1,000+ posts on kreslik (gotta narrow the field some how).


Have another 800 odd posts to go hehe. PRO should be happy .... :wink:


Actually.
That would be like a dream, but I do not feel it is deserved at this time.

What are we going to do?
Look at charts.
Agree on a good entry from a MZ/ZL perspective.
Take the trade.
And then what?

Should I exit now?
How about now?
Maybe now?
Gotta be now, right?

I don't think MightyOne wants to hold hands with a virtual friend while they are in a trade.
Well, unless maybe that friend has measurements of 34,24,34!!!!

If a trader does not yet get the concepts laid out here, and are also able to apply what they know, then it would not do them much good anyway.

Now, if you are getting some pips, (20-50 pip runs) on a regular basis, Using what you've learned in the NLA thread, I'd say a little mentorship to tighten up your game would be worth his time.

Someone like dragon33, es/pip, ect would really get something out of it. They would have legitimate questions to ask and be able to ACT on what they learned.

Just my 2 cents (being my account isn't much bigger than that)
:twisted:


You think my analysis consists of Mighty Zone and Zero Lines?

Now that is comical :lol:

Everyone was looking at the wrong things so I broke off one little piece of wisdom and assigned rules to it so that they would not suffer severe draw down.

My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary.



"My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary. "

I don't understand how you do it 100% yet, but this statement alone is my guiding light of trading. I went through a rough spot trading recently. Once I got back to this type of analysis I was back on track.

Also, I was reading up on Binary options and I was wondering how you was thinking of applying them to make this 8 to 15 times returns. They seem like any other type of options with a cost based on strike price and intrinsic value plus time determining their value.

Thanks MightyOne without your interaction here I may have never been able to achieve amazing results.


You purchase options where price is beyond the boundaries and match them with your longer term analysis to do something similar to trading out of the money calls and puts.

Because the binary is out of the money and thus not losing or gaining pips it is next to worthless (risk = the spread) and thus the profit potential for said option is enormous should the option move back into the money.

If your risk is 5 pips and your exit is an 80 pip gain then you make 16 to 1 on your money.
If your risk is 7 pips with the same target you will make 11 to 1 on your money.

All that you do is this:

When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go short then short the strike that is 3 strikes lower.
When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go long then go long the strike that is 3 strikes higher.

You will be up to 20 pips out of the money and the options should be cheap. If you are targeting a 120 pip move then this really doesn't matter much to you especially since your risk will be the same as a scalpers.

If you are getting near to the end of your profit potential and you believe that price will continue to rise (maybe its a weekly trade) then liquidate the option and purchase the strike that is 3 strikes higher than the closest strike.


so basically you would just treat it like u said-----as an out of the money play

i know u are not using zl for this thread but if one was to think the market was going to go to that target based on that pa

while the market was trading at 1.5865

you would buy say 1.5970 calls for like $1 or $2 bec they are way out of the money

and no one in their right mind would think the market would go up that much :roll:

and then sell them at 10 or 11

or whatever

Image
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:30 pm

es/pip wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
prochargedmopar wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote: ..... and possibly traders with 1,000+ posts on kreslik (gotta narrow the field some how).


Have another 800 odd posts to go hehe. PRO should be happy .... :wink:


Actually.
That would be like a dream, but I do not feel it is deserved at this time.

What are we going to do?
Look at charts.
Agree on a good entry from a MZ/ZL perspective.
Take the trade.
And then what?

Should I exit now?
How about now?
Maybe now?
Gotta be now, right?

I don't think MightyOne wants to hold hands with a virtual friend while they are in a trade.
Well, unless maybe that friend has measurements of 34,24,34!!!!

If a trader does not yet get the concepts laid out here, and are also able to apply what they know, then it would not do them much good anyway.

Now, if you are getting some pips, (20-50 pip runs) on a regular basis, Using what you've learned in the NLA thread, I'd say a little mentorship to tighten up your game would be worth his time.

Someone like dragon33, es/pip, ect would really get something out of it. They would have legitimate questions to ask and be able to ACT on what they learned.

Just my 2 cents (being my account isn't much bigger than that)
:twisted:


You think my analysis consists of Mighty Zone and Zero Lines?

Now that is comical :lol:

Everyone was looking at the wrong things so I broke off one little piece of wisdom and assigned rules to it so that they would not suffer severe draw down.

My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary.



"My analysis is post-momentum and current to recent past comparisons ie discretionary. "

I don't understand how you do it 100% yet, but this statement alone is my guiding light of trading. I went through a rough spot trading recently. Once I got back to this type of analysis I was back on track.

Also, I was reading up on Binary options and I was wondering how you was thinking of applying them to make this 8 to 15 times returns. They seem like any other type of options with a cost based on strike price and intrinsic value plus time determining their value.

Thanks MightyOne without your interaction here I may have never been able to achieve amazing results.


You purchase options where price is beyond the boundaries and match them with your longer term analysis to do something similar to trading out of the money calls and puts.

Because the binary is out of the money and thus not losing or gaining pips it is next to worthless (risk = the spread) and thus the profit potential for said option is enormous should the option move back into the money.

If your risk is 5 pips and your exit is an 80 pip gain then you make 16 to 1 on your money.
If your risk is 7 pips with the same target you will make 11 to 1 on your money.

All that you do is this:

When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go short then short the strike that is 3 strikes lower.
When price is within 10 pips from a strike and you wish to go long then go long the strike that is 3 strikes higher.

You will be up to 20 pips out of the money and the options should be cheap. If you are targeting a 120 pip move then this really doesn't matter much to you especially since your risk will be the same as a scalpers.

If you are getting near to the end of your profit potential and you believe that price will continue to rise (maybe its a weekly trade) then liquidate the option and purchase the strike that is 3 strikes higher than the closest strike.


so basically you would just treat it like u said-----as an out of the money play

i know u are not using zl for this thread but if one was to think the market was going to go to that target based on that pa

while the market was trading at 1.5865

you would buy say 1.5970 calls for like $1 or $2 bec they are way out of the money

and no one in their right mind would think the market would go up that much :roll:

and then sell them at 10 or 11

or whatever

Image


You are just attempting to get paid X to 1 or greater when your analysis is correct.
If what you are considering doing accomplishes that goal with the least amount of risk then the answer is yes.

If you can add staying power to your trading then by all means do so.

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Postby marypipins » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:34 pm

I like the way you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfi4s8cjLFI

Lisa
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Postby pablo101 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:39 am

MightyOne wrote:
[glow=red][shadow=red]If you use maximum leverage you can reach $10,440 in 5 consecutive winning trades (possibly 1,000% in fewer than 1 weeks time).

Considering that you have all week to be correct 5 consecutive winning trades shouldn't be that[/glow] difficult.
[/shadow]



Awesome, this is possible? So just trading from highs and lows of extremes right? I think I need to man up and get my trading sorted :roll:

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:39 am

pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
[glow=red][shadow=red]If you use maximum leverage you can reach $10,440 in 5 consecutive winning trades (possibly 1,000% in fewer than 1 weeks time).

Considering that you have all week to be correct 5 consecutive winning trades shouldn't be that[/glow] difficult.
[/shadow]



Awesome, this is possible? So just trading from highs and lows of extremes right? I think I need to man up and get my trading sorted :roll:


Someone on this board posted this link.
A guy explains it here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=173735
Last edited by prochargedmopar on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby pablo101 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:12 am

Thanks PRO, this looks very interesting, "better than spot forex" that thread starter says. Looks like I have an interesting read over the weekend. Thanks again :)

prochargedmopar wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
[glow=red][shadow=red]If you use maximum leverage you can reach $10,440 in 5 consecutive winning trades (possibly 1,000% in fewer than 1 weeks time).

Considering that you have all week to be correct 5 consecutive winning trades shouldn't be that[/glow] difficult.
[/shadow]



Awesome, this is possible? So just trading from highs and lows of extremes right? I think I need to man up and get my trading sorted :roll:


Someone on this board posted this link.
This guy explains it here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=173735

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