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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:06 am

pablo101 wrote:
es/pip wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
JESGPY wrote:Pablo..

What happened with your issue.???

Hope you solved it and got your money back

JUAN


Still fighting it, their excuse is banks moving markets too fast bla bla bla, the usual spew I anticipated, will let you know what happens.



that is total BS

i looked at a 1 tick chart and there were bid upticks on the way down, through all that. so for them to say there was no liq. is bs.


no way you shouldnt have got a fill

have you talked to justin lablang? or whatever his name is?

he is the guy who runs most of the threads on the forums. I would keep posting and making it public on the forums and create some bad publicity. Demanding that it get resolved in public. I think there is a MBT thread at FF and EliteTrader.

Also, continue to stay on the compliance department until you get some results.

Then i would switch brokers after you get it resolved, i may switch just bec of this myself.


Hi ES,

Initially, I made it officially public on FF on Justin thread to let everyone know, I'm trying not to be a kid about it, I know it can happen and it may not be their fault but I keep it cordial for now until I get some results.

Here's what i got from a private email from him:

"So I had this trade reviewed by our Head of Trade Desk and also the person who runs the MT4 project here. Given the market actions at the time, there?s nothing that we can do on this fill. There were liquidity providers jumping 5 pips at a time and very few orders were being executed along the way. Your order was routed to several banks after your stop triggered in an effort to get you filled. Everything on our end behaved properly, meaning that your order didn?t get stuck at any destination. Put simply, this was the definition of a fast market and took all liquidity providers by surprise. All orders on the ECN itself were wiped in a second, leaving only outside liquidity providers providing quotes."

yeah yada yada yada ... I wouldn't be surprised all brokers have this as a copy and paste of this on their desktop

Strangely (or not), I got this prompted email after I name dropped "kreslik.com" to him, see what happens when I mention TRO (if you don't mind). I think you guys have power!


i still say that is bs

"All orders on the ECN itself were wiped in a second, leaving only outside liquidity providers providing quotes"

not sure what that even means

ask him to explain how they can have upticks on the bid and you couldnt get any of those fills

i can understand getting hammered in a situation like that and having some slippage but i cannot understand getting filled at the bottom 100 ticks away when there were upticks--- and that is assuming that there were no bids before the upticks---- which obv there were bec it didnt slam down in 1 second

now if the chart showed a 1 sec slam bar of a 100 pips then that would be a different story

5tick and 1 sec chart below


Image

Image
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Postby PTG » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:16 am

pablo101 wrote:Strangely (or not), I got this prompted email after I name dropped "kreslik.com" to him, see what happens when I mention TRO (if you don't mind). I think you guys have power!


Here is a relevant part of the conversation I had with them mid March, after I closed a short trade on Cable that triggered due to "an erroneous spike" by offsetting it with a long, only to find myself deep in the red in terms of pips by the end of the day. The short was completely turned back, and my offsetting long, meant to contain the damage, was supposed to be my responsibility. As it turned out, I should have notified them, whilst leaving that trade alone.

"I understand your situation and concern. The market experienced an erroneous spike in the offer quote that caused an execution of your order, 61.2 pips away from the true market. This is unfortunate, but does periodically happen. It is important for each trader to monitor their trading activity and if an execution appears to be outside of the norms of the current market, it is best to call the Order Desk to check to see if the execution will stand or not. The Order Desk will always give you the most current information possible. It is possible that when you call into the Order Desk that the destination had not yet ruled on the execution(s). These types of rulings are not eligible for appeal.

For more information regarding the Clearly Erroneous Policy, you may find it at this URL:

http://www.mbtrading.com/disclaimerCEP.aspx"


It is my opinion, that this outfit appears to be doing whatever the heck they like, apparently. They seem to favour excuses over actually doing a good job, whilst pissing off their customers, whom they apparently couldn't care less about.

My advice would be to point them towards this CEP. After all, this appears to be "an execution outside of the norms of the current market".

Meanwhile, I have moved on to Dukascopy, thanks to Dragon. Until the day I get reimbursed, even if it is based on "customer satisfaction" principals, I will remain very sceptical indeed about this outfit.

Another thing that I have a strong opinion about is the fact that "I think you guys have power!" (is that TRO ?) has to be proven yet. It clearly did not work in my case. But who knows, maybe I will be proven wrong, which I'd welcome of course. I am not holding my breath though.

Good night, and good luck. :roll:
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Postby PTG » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:24 am

Just to make this perfectly clear: this is what that CEP page states as of this time:


Forex Clearly Erroneous Trade Execution Policy

This Clearly Erroneous Trade Execution Policy ("Policy?) is based on our belief that unjust enrichment by one person because of another person?s mistake is not fair and honorable, and that in such unjust enrichment circumstances, the appropriate trade(s) should be considered for appropriate adjustment including cancellation.

All forex transactions that receive executions through the MBT Desktop are subject to this Policy and are generally considered for review.

Clearly Erroneous Executions
A ?clearly erroneous transaction? is defined as, but shall not be limited to, an execution of an order at a price substantially different from, or inconsistent with, the prevailing market for a given currency pair on a trading day (as determined in the interbank market) or, as applicable, outside the traded range for a given currency pair for a particular moment in time (as determined in the interbank market) that may be in question.

Trade Execution Quality
We have designed trade execution quality procedures that take many factors into consideration on a pair-by-pair basis over a period of time to preserve the integrity of trades that receive executions within the MBT Desktop.

Trade execution quality assurance procedures, no matter how well designed, have inherent limitations that include the likelihood of orders executed on the MBT Desktop at a different price than the interbank best bid/offer or any other foreign exchange bid/offer market. Any order executed at a different price than the interbank best bid/offer or any other foreign exchange bid/offer market shall not be deemed to be erroneous solely because it was executed at such different price, provided that the price was within the trade range in the interbank or foreign exchange market at the time the trade was executed.

Filing Deadline for Trade Execution Complaints
If a customer receives an execution on an order that was executed in error, the customer must submit a request to MB Trading Futures ("MBTF?) to review the transaction to determine if it is, in fact, an erroneous trade execution.

A trade execution complaint must be received by MBTF within one (1) hour from the time the disputed or questioned trade was executed. Such complaints may be called into MBTF's Order Desk at (866) 628-3001 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (866) 628-3001 end_of_the_skype_highlighting or submitted via e-mail at cete@mbtrading.com; please write "Clearly Erroneous Trade Execution" in the subject line.

MBTF may, in its sole discretion, consider customer requests to review transactions received after the one (1) hour time period, depending on the facts and circumstances surrounding such request.

Information Required for Filing a Trade Execution Complaint
A trade execution complaint must include the following information:

* Currency Pair
* Execution Price(s) or range of execution prices
* Time of trade execution(s)
* Number of units executed
* Reason the review is being requested
* Account number
* Name on the account
* Contact telephone number
* Contact e-mail address

If MBTF receives a trade execution complaint that does not contain all the required information, MBTF will immediately notify the customer that the complaint is deficient. A customer?s failure to submit the required information for a trade review or within the specified time period may be rejected at the sole discretion of MBTF.

Factors Considered in Clearly Erroneous Rulings
Factors used to rule on clearly erroneous trade executions are based on the currency pair and include, but are not limited to (1) that day and historical price range; (2) price volatility; (3) relative volume; (4) new highs or lows created; (5) overall market conditions; (6) locked and/or crossed prices; (7) news releases; (8) submission time to review the execution; (9) system malfunctions or disruptions; and (10) other facts and circumstances as the situation may warrant.

Clearly Erroneous Trade Execution Rulings
In the event that MBTF determines, in its sole discretion, that a material term of a trade execution submitted by customer is clearly erroneous, MBTF may break, cancel, nullify, amend or modify the transaction. MBTF will make a final determination within three (3) hours of a customer?s request for a review of a transaction, except under exceptional circumstances. A customer will receive a written determination from MBTF.

Customers are financially responsible for any offsetting transactions entered by the customer that is based on a trade execution complaint submitted to MBTF for review or selected for review by MBTF.

MBTF may also, in its sole discretion, break, cancel, nullify, amend or modify any transaction that is clearly erroneous as defined above regardless of whether a transaction was submitted by a customer; provided, the actions are necessary for the maintenance of a fair and orderly market or the protection of all customer accounts.
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Postby PTG » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:26 am

Double post :cry:
Last edited by PTG on Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PTG » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:27 am

Double post :shock:
Last edited by PTG on Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pablo101 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:28 am

dragon33 wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
newschool wrote:dragon invited his good friend to dukascopy... he seems to find its a good broker....

http://www.dukascopy.com/media/advert_v ... ildCache=1


very tempted to move brokers, scared of using MBT now.


Don't want to push you but i know some guys who lost $400000 on the 6th may with MB for the same issues.

Limit orders not respected etc on the big drop on yencrosses. They are now with Dukascopy and they say it is a big difference.


400K loss! that's nuts! Makes you question what the heck is going with the broker, I've heard similar experiences elsewhere recently. Thanks for that, some ammunition for me.

EDIT: PTG and ES not ignoring you guys, I just saw your posts when I posted this one already.

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Postby pablo101 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:43 am

Sorry for flooding this thread with my issue OP, hope it's ok but I thought you kreslik members should know, if you want I can make a new thread.
What line? The line that tells you which way you are trading! - MO

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Postby pablo101 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:13 am

es/pip wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
es/pip wrote:
pablo101 wrote:
JESGPY wrote:Pablo..

What happened with your issue.???

Hope you solved it and got your money back

JUAN


Still fighting it, their excuse is banks moving markets too fast bla bla bla, the usual spew I anticipated, will let you know what happens.



that is total BS

i looked at a 1 tick chart and there were bid upticks on the way down, through all that. so for them to say there was no liq. is bs.


no way you shouldnt have got a fill

have you talked to justin lablang? or whatever his name is?

he is the guy who runs most of the threads on the forums. I would keep posting and making it public on the forums and create some bad publicity. Demanding that it get resolved in public. I think there is a MBT thread at FF and EliteTrader.

Also, continue to stay on the compliance department until you get some results.

Then i would switch brokers after you get it resolved, i may switch just bec of this myself.


Hi ES,

Initially, I made it officially public on FF on Justin thread to let everyone know, I'm trying not to be a kid about it, I know it can happen and it may not be their fault but I keep it cordial for now until I get some results.

Here's what i got from a private email from him:

"So I had this trade reviewed by our Head of Trade Desk and also the person who runs the MT4 project here. Given the market actions at the time, there?s nothing that we can do on this fill. There were liquidity providers jumping 5 pips at a time and very few orders were being executed along the way. Your order was routed to several banks after your stop triggered in an effort to get you filled. Everything on our end behaved properly, meaning that your order didn?t get stuck at any destination. Put simply, this was the definition of a fast market and took all liquidity providers by surprise. All orders on the ECN itself were wiped in a second, leaving only outside liquidity providers providing quotes."

yeah yada yada yada ... I wouldn't be surprised all brokers have this as a copy and paste of this on their desktop

Strangely (or not), I got this prompted email after I name dropped "kreslik.com" to him, see what happens when I mention TRO (if you don't mind). I think you guys have power!


i still say that is bs

"All orders on the ECN itself were wiped in a second, leaving only outside liquidity providers providing quotes"

not sure what that even means

ask him to explain how they can have upticks on the bid and you couldnt get any of those fills

i can understand getting hammered in a situation like that and having some slippage but i cannot understand getting filled at the bottom 100 ticks away when there were upticks--- and that is assuming that there were no bids before the upticks---- which obv there were bec it didnt slam down in 1 second

now if the chart showed a 1 sec slam bar of a 100 pips then that would be a different story

5tick and 1 sec chart below


Image

Image


I know what you're saying here.

If you don't mind, I want to use these charts to show them.

Thanks for the help ES

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Postby pablo101 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:25 am

PTG wrote:
pablo101 wrote:Strangely (or not), I got this prompted email after I name dropped "kreslik.com" to him, see what happens when I mention TRO (if you don't mind). I think you guys have power!


Here is a relevant part of the conversation I had with them mid March, after I closed a short trade on Cable that triggered due to "an erroneous spike" by offsetting it with a long, only to find myself deep in the red in terms of pips by the end of the day. The short was completely turned back, and my offsetting long, meant to contain the damage, was supposed to be my responsibility. As it turned out, I should have notified them, whilst leaving that trade alone.

"I understand your situation and concern. The market experienced an erroneous spike in the offer quote that caused an execution of your order, 61.2 pips away from the true market. This is unfortunate, but does periodically happen. It is important for each trader to monitor their trading activity and if an execution appears to be outside of the norms of the current market, it is best to call the Order Desk to check to see if the execution will stand or not. The Order Desk will always give you the most current information possible. It is possible that when you call into the Order Desk that the destination had not yet ruled on the execution(s). These types of rulings are not eligible for appeal.

For more information regarding the Clearly Erroneous Policy, you may find it at this URL:

http://www.mbtrading.com/disclaimerCEP.aspx"


It is my opinion, that this outfit appears to be doing whatever the heck they like, apparently. They seem to favour excuses over actually doing a good job, whilst pissing off their customers, whom they apparently couldn't care less about.

My advice would be to point them towards this CEP. After all, this appears to be "an execution outside of the norms of the current market".

Meanwhile, I have moved on to Dukascopy, thanks to Dragon. Until the day I get reimbursed, even if it is based on "customer satisfaction" principals, I will remain very sceptical indeed about this outfit.

Another thing that I have a strong opinion about is the fact that "I think you guys have power!" (is that TRO ?) has to be proven yet. It clearly did not work in my case. But who knows, maybe I will be proven wrong, which I'd welcome of course. I am not holding my breath though.

Good night, and good luck. :roll:


So I shouldn't have close it, I should call the trade desk first ... no way in hell I'm doing that!

This is a first for me so I'm leaving judgement of the broker until I get some more answers which is slow and far between.

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Postby adaseb » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:25 am

Hey guys. Been a while since I posted anything. Don't want this thread to die down so here is one of my most successful trades a had in a while.

Image

Wish more days were like today.

Regarding brokers I heard the same negative opinions on MBT. I don't remember exactly when it was, but there was a massive spike down in the market for a few seconds and most brokers and chart feeds showed the move. However MBT charts hadn't and didn't execute any limit orders where people wanted to close their short position in that area. I think the pair was GU and this might of been about 2-3 months.

If you want the best broker out there I would go with Dukascopy and if you want a good broker go with Oanda. Most build their accounts with Oanda and then move to Dukascopy.

Other brokers, especially the ones that double or triple your initial deposit are usually going to try to screw you over one way or another.

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