2009.09.10 DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT

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The_Snowman
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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby The_Snowman » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:44 am

MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.

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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby MightyOne » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:13 am

The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.


EDIT: I can be a little harsh when hyped up on energy drinks...
I will leave you to your new discovery.

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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby The_Snowman » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:46 am

MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.


Removing time is not a new idea...

I am aware of all the methods you listed and more.

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of what my father went through during my teen years :wink:



MO = "Removing time is not a new idea" True, and I never said it was, I am only after TRO's take on it, not your childlike response

MO = "Remove anything from a chart but TIME!"

"I am aware of all the methods you listed and more."

Then why did you make this inane comment?

MO = "I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno."

You guess ??? and then mention "to simulate time" ? this clearly shows that you have no understanding of Constant Range Bars, none whatsoever

and it ends with "dunno" showing that you agree

Mighty One, this is a forum for sharing ideas, not sniping at them, so if you have nothing to contribute, go back to what you were doing 8)

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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby MightyOne » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:09 am

The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.


Removing time is not a new idea...

I am aware of all the methods you listed and more.

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of what my father went through during my teen years :wink:



MO = "Removing time is not a new idea" True, and I never said it was, I am only after TRO's take on it, not your childlike response

MO = "Remove anything from a chart but TIME!"

"I am aware of all the methods you listed and more."

Then why did you make this inane comment?

MO = "I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno."

You guess ??? and then mention "to simulate time" ? this clearly shows that you have no understanding of Constant Range Bars, none whatsoever

and it ends with "dunno" showing that you agree

Mighty One, this is a forum for sharing ideas, not sniping at them, so if you have nothing to contribute, go back to what you were doing 8)


No, I am aware of the flaws of taking time out of the equation and offered a solution to mitigate said flaws.

I was more or less responding to your comment that I am close minded for not considering range bars when in actuality I have already looked into it in depth years ago.

The context of "dunno" is that no perfect solution had been found and the idea was eventually scrapped.

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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby The_Snowman » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:27 am

MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.


Removing time is not a new idea...

I am aware of all the methods you listed and more.

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of what my father went through during my teen years :wink:



MO = "Removing time is not a new idea" True, and I never said it was, I am only after TRO's take on it, not your childlike response

MO = "Remove anything from a chart but TIME!"

"I am aware of all the methods you listed and more."

Then why did you make this inane comment?

MO = "I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno."

You guess ??? and then mention "to simulate time" ? this clearly shows that you have no understanding of Constant Range Bars, none whatsoever

and it ends with "dunno" showing that you agree

Mighty One, this is a forum for sharing ideas, not sniping at them, so if you have nothing to contribute, go back to what you were doing 8)


No, I am aware of the flaws of taking time out of the equation and offered a solution to mitigate said flaws.

I was more or less responding to your comment that I am close minded for not considering range bars when in actuality I have already looked into in in depth years ago.


@ MO - By the very definition of prejudice, you have pre-judged Constant Range Bars (with your look into them years ago) and dismissed them, therefore you have already closed your mind to them and have nothing to contribute to this conversation. Unless you can post that chart you made based on TIME

My main inquiry is in regards to whether TRO has done any research into them, whether TRO price based indicators work better with price only charts?

Nicolellis range bars were developed in the mid 1990s by Vicente Nicolellis, a Brazilian trader and broker who spent over a decade running a trading desk in Sao Paulo. The local markets at the time were very volatile, and Nicolellis became interested in developing a way to use the volatility to his advantage. He believed price movement was paramount to understanding and using volatility.

He developed Range Bars to take only price into consideration, thereby eliminating time from the equation. Nicolellis found that bars based on price only, and not time or other data, provided a new way of viewing and utilizing the volatility of the markets. Today, Range Bars are the new kid on the block, and are gaining popularity as a tool that traders can use to interpret volatility and place well-timed trades.

Calculating Range Bars
Range bars take only price into consideration; therefore, each bar represents a specified movement of price. Traders and investors may be familiar with viewing bar charts based on time; for instance, a 30-minute chart where one bar shows the price activity for each 30-minute time period. Time-based charts, such as the 30-minute chart in this example, will always print the same number of bars during each trading session, regardless of volatility, volume or any other factor. Range Bars, on the other hand, can have any number of bars printing during a trading session: during times of higher volatility, more bars will print; conversely, during periods of lower volatility, fewer bars will print. The number of range bars created during a trading session will also depend on the instrument being charted and the specified price movement of the range bar.

Three rules of range bars:

Each range bar must have a high/low range that equals the specified range.
Each range bar must open outside the high/low range of the previous bar.
Each range bar must close at either its high or its low.

Interpreting Volatility with Range Bars
Volatility refers to the degree of price movement in a trading instrument. As markets trade in a narrow range, fewer range bars print, reflecting decreased volatility. As price begins to break out of a trading range with an increase in volatility, more range bars will print. In order for range bars to become meaningful as a measure of volatility, a trader must spend time observing a particular trading instrument with a specific range bar setting applied. Through this careful watching, a trader can notice the subtle changes in the timing of the bars and the frequency in which they print. The faster the bars print, the greater the price volatility; the slower the bars print, the lower the price volatility. Periods of increased volatility often signify trading opportunities as a new trend may be starting.

Conclusion
While range bars are not a type of technical indicator, they are a useful tool that traders can employ to identify trends and to interpret volatility. Since range bars take only price into consideration, and not time or other factors, they provide traders with a new view of price activity. Spending time observing range bars in action is the best way to establish the most useful settings for a particular trading instrument and trading style, and to determine how to effectively apply them to a trading system.

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Re: thanks for that..........

Postby MightyOne » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:14 am

The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
The_Snowman wrote:
tmanbone wrote:MT4 range bars are being used here:
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=920


Thanks for the heads up on that, but the thread title is NINJA PLATFORM and I was asking about Metatrader 4.

Also, the charts that I see, although they mention range bars, look more like Heikin Ashi to me.

A true range bar will only have a tail at one end of the candle, because when it reaches the other end, it has fulfilled the RANGE requirement and a new candle or bar is formed.

Anyway, the question still stands and perhaps TRO will notice it sooner or later.


Remove anything from a chart but TIME! :shock:


I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno.


Please show me an example of a trade using TIME. I thought all followers of TRO would have open minds on new ideas.

For those interested, more reading here, on all everything you can base a chart on -

http://www.linnsoft.com/tutorials/periodicities.htm

Time Driven Periodicities

* Second Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of seconds.
* Minute Bars Each bar reflects trading activity during a user-specified number of minutes.
* Daily Each bar reflects trading activity during one day.
* Weekly Each bar reflects trading activity during one week.
? Monthly Each bar reflects trading activity during one month.

Volume Driven Periodicities

* Tick Each point/dot reflects one trade/tick.
* Tick Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified number of trades/ticks.
* Volume Bars Each bar reflects price action over a user-specified volume.

Price Driven Periodicities

* Range Bars Each bar has the same high/low range.
* Change Bars Each bar has the same open/close change.
* Point and Figure Each bar is built and displayed based on Point and Figure logic.
* Renko Each bar is built and displayed based on Renko logic.

These periodicities can be grouped into 3 categories: time driven, volume driven, and price driven.

Time Driven Periodicities - Second Bars, Minute Bars, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly

Time driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during a specific amount of time. The open represents the first trade that occurred during that time period, while the close represents the last trade. In these periodicity, the volume and price range of each bar can vary greatly, while the time period is kept constant.

Volume Driven Periodicities - Tick, Tick Bars, Volume Bars

Volume driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price activity that occurred during the trading of a specific amount of volume or number of trades (ticks). In these periodicities, the price range and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the volume is kept constant.

Price Driven Periodicities - Range Bars, Change Bars, Point and Figure, Renko

Price driven periodicities are those in which each bar is composed of the price action that occurred during a given movement in price. That price movement can be expressed as a given high low range (Range Bars) or a given change from open to close (Change Bars). For Renko and Point and Figure periodicities, price must retrace a given amount in order to complete a bar. In these periodicities, the volume and time of each bar can vary greatly, while the price movement of each bar is kept essentially constant.


Removing time is not a new idea...

I am aware of all the methods you listed and more.

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of what my father went through during my teen years :wink:



MO = "Removing time is not a new idea" True, and I never said it was, I am only after TRO's take on it, not your childlike response

MO = "Remove anything from a chart but TIME!"

"I am aware of all the methods you listed and more."

Then why did you make this inane comment?

MO = "I guess you could always set the bars to the median or average range of x period of time to simulate time but the chart would have to be constantly adjusted...or maybe an indi would do it? dunno."

You guess ??? and then mention "to simulate time" ? this clearly shows that you have no understanding of Constant Range Bars, none whatsoever

and it ends with "dunno" showing that you agree

Mighty One, this is a forum for sharing ideas, not sniping at them, so if you have nothing to contribute, go back to what you were doing 8)


No, I am aware of the flaws of taking time out of the equation and offered a solution to mitigate said flaws.

I was more or less responding to your comment that I am close minded for not considering range bars when in actuality I have already looked into in in depth years ago.


@ MO - By the very definition of prejudice, you have pre-judged Constant Range Bars (with your look into them years ago) and dismissed them, therefore you have already closed your mind to them and have nothing to contribute to this conversation. Unless you can post that chart you made based on TIME

My main inquiry is in regards to whether TRO has done any research into them, whether TRO price based indicators work better with price only charts?

Nicolellis range bars were developed in the mid 1990s by Vicente Nicolellis, a Brazilian trader and broker who spent over a decade running a trading desk in Sao Paulo. The local markets at the time were very volatile, and Nicolellis became interested in developing a way to use the volatility to his advantage. He believed price movement was paramount to understanding and using volatility.

He developed Range Bars to take only price into consideration, thereby eliminating time from the equation. Nicolellis found that bars based on price only, and not time or other data, provided a new way of viewing and utilizing the volatility of the markets. Today, Range Bars are the new kid on the block, and are gaining popularity as a tool that traders can use to interpret volatility and place well-timed trades.

Calculating Range Bars
Range bars take only price into consideration; therefore, each bar represents a specified movement of price. Traders and investors may be familiar with viewing bar charts based on time; for instance, a 30-minute chart where one bar shows the price activity for each 30-minute time period. Time-based charts, such as the 30-minute chart in this example, will always print the same number of bars during each trading session, regardless of volatility, volume or any other factor. Range Bars, on the other hand, can have any number of bars printing during a trading session: during times of higher volatility, more bars will print; conversely, during periods of lower volatility, fewer bars will print. The number of range bars created during a trading session will also depend on the instrument being charted and the specified price movement of the range bar.

Three rules of range bars:

Each range bar must have a high/low range that equals the specified range.
Each range bar must open outside the high/low range of the previous bar.
Each range bar must close at either its high or its low.

Interpreting Volatility with Range Bars
Volatility refers to the degree of price movement in a trading instrument. As markets trade in a narrow range, fewer range bars print, reflecting decreased volatility. As price begins to break out of a trading range with an increase in volatility, more range bars will print. In order for range bars to become meaningful as a measure of volatility, a trader must spend time observing a particular trading instrument with a specific range bar setting applied. Through this careful watching, a trader can notice the subtle changes in the timing of the bars and the frequency in which they print. The faster the bars print, the greater the price volatility; the slower the bars print, the lower the price volatility. Periods of increased volatility often signify trading opportunities as a new trend may be starting.

Conclusion
While range bars are not a type of technical indicator, they are a useful tool that traders can employ to identify trends and to interpret volatility. Since range bars take only price into consideration, and not time or other factors, they provide traders with a new view of price activity. Spending time observing range bars in action is the best way to establish the most useful settings for a particular trading instrument and trading style, and to determine how to effectively apply them to a trading system.


I am not sure what you are asking as every chart that I have ever posted (all thousands of them) uses price over time (time needs an object to act upon).

I hardly think that offering a method where by you choose the range setting for your CRB charts based on the median/average ranges of charts with time is grounds for saying that I am trying to derail a discussion.

The problem that I have with CRB charts is that they ignore the importance of body size, opens, closes, wicks, comparisons, time and price studies such as waves, CC, price projection, etc.

Price moving an arbitrary number of pips only has value within a system; it is technically insignificant.

I am not saying that pushing the buy buy buy button within 20 pips from the low will not work, I am just wondering where your edge is if the CRB chart is used to replace a chart with time (not that you were suggesting this to begin with).

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Postby pika » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:17 pm

Quite interesting to read a less often used approach. I think CRB can be useful for position trading and showing where the real support and resistance levels are, but since it lacks the time dimension, it cannot indicate how volatile a market really is. For example, you cannot calculate the ATR from a CRB chart. Another limitation may be that the value of sloping trend lines is diminished when drawn on CRB chart as compared to a normal Price-Time chart.

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Re: CONSTANT RANGE BAR CHARTS

Postby TheRumpledOne » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:53 pm

The_Snowman wrote:@ TRO,

Have you ever researched into using CONSTANT RANGE BARS in your trading?

I realize that a lot of your indicators are time based and would not work on a range bar chart, but seems to me that the price based indicators surely would benefit from using RANGE BARS, especially the Rat Zone.

And before everyone gets excited, yes, I searched this forum, but the search function is not as good as other forums.

Also, RANGE BARS are not Renko bars, Heikin Ashi bars, ticks bars or point & figure bars, please read this first -

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/tr ... t-view.asp

I do not have live data access right now, or I would surely be posting some charts.

And for those of you with Metatrader 4, a Constant Range Bar indicator is hard to find, but I did it, check it out here, the FREE version, don't pay for it -

http://www.surefiretradingchallenge.com ... SWWUBQHBCL

and here is how to use it, not as straight forward as just whacking it on the chart, you will see -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J75KzAp11Y4


They are just a gimmick and have NOTHING TO DO WITH TRADING.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:56 pm

tmanbone wrote:TRO,

I'm curious how you get your #'s from the below figures into your expectancy formula. Expectancy = (probability of win * average win) - (probabilty of a loss * average loss) I noticed you demonstrated this over at Big Mikes but I couldn't figure out how you got the #'s. I would sincerely appreciate you demonstrating this. Thank you,

Image


I am not sure what you are asking.

This thread is about DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT. Everyone, please stay ON TOPIC.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

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Postby tmanbone » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:46 pm

TheRumpledOne wrote:
tmanbone wrote:TRO,

I'm curious how you get your #'s from the below figures into your expectancy formula. Expectancy = (probability of win * average win) - (probabilty of a loss * average loss) I noticed you demonstrated this over at Big Mikes but I couldn't figure out how you got the #'s. I would sincerely appreciate you demonstrating this. Thank you,

Image


I am not sure what you are asking.

This thread is about DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT. Everyone, please stay ON TOPIC.



I'm asking if you could fill in the numbers on the expectancy formula with an example. I think this pertains to the rat method. Thanks,
"The simplicity of the markets is it's greatest disguise"

T

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