2009.04.04 WHY 95% OF TRADERS LOSE

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eudamonia
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Postby eudamonia » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:34 pm

Avery,

Actually, I think the problem isn't an ability to follow directions in and of itself.

The problem is psychological. Too much success is frightening to the average person. And you are not just teaching people to be successful, but extraordinarily successful. This may not seem like any sort of a bad thing. But it pushes people outside their comfort zone.

Do you remember the last time I was in Mexico with you? I would do exactly what Clipz3 used to do. And then I would bail on the breakout wondering why I kept losing money. Losing was more comfortable to me than winning. Yes, it's true. I wanted to lose. I felt guilty when I made money trading. Because that is extraordinary.

It took me awhile to come to grips with this truth. Like Ed Seykota says, "everyone gets what they want out of the markets". When I realized this, I finally discovered that I would use a trading method as a crutch. I did not allow myself to be the system. I would enter when the pros like you were exiting, and I would exit when they would enter. Then I would blame the method. Remember YOU are your EDGE! Nothing else!

Why was this? Because of emotions - my emotions. I felt guilty when I made more money in a day then some of my friends could make in a month. But this game isn't about making money - NO - it is about understanding emotions, ours and the market's. When I started asking myself to BE the system, take 110% accountability for the trade, and to be better today then I was yesterday that is when I started making money consistently. I could then SEE the 95% when they were letting their emotions get the best of them. AHA! Now is the time to strike.

Making money is now just keeping score. But the true test is the ability to strive to understand the markets (and myself) better every day. FOCUS! SEE! ACT! PROFIT!

Edward
Eudaimonia (pron.: you-die-moan-e-a) (Greek: εὐδαιμονία) is a classical Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness'. The less subjective "human flourishing" is often preferred as a translation.

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winny
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Postby winny » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:38 pm

johnsund wrote: The main point of my post was to let others know that if they want to divert the discussion away from how to effectively use DTB, they are impacting others ability to learn.


Yes, you should always follow the instructions of the person who designed the system, and who trades profitably with it themselve. Its true that other people may have good ideas to follow up or tools that might help to trade even more profitably with the basic system. As that is the reason why we are reading all these posts, just to learn from each other.
Still, I think the design of the DTB system as it is right now is excellent.

winny
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Postby winny » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:51 pm

eudamonia wrote:

I felt guilty when I made more money in a day then some of my friends could make in a month.

Edward


Yes Edward, I personally struggled with the same feeling in the past. But you know, I got rid of it by thinking that I could make a lot of people who are in a difficult position (family, friends, charity) very happy if I was able to help them (financially). And if you think from that perspective, you probably get a better feeling about this trading business.

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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:54 pm

johnsund wrote:winny and TRO - Thanks for the comments. My post may have been unclear in a couple of areas. First, I am certainly aware of the fact that I should not trade more than I am prepared to lose. What I am planning on trading in the forex market is a small part of overall resources. Second, I realize 3clipz is relatively inexperienced, but as you say, has come a long way in a short period. He generally sticks to trading DTB as you designed it, and is effective in communicating what he is doing and why. The main point of my post was to let others know that if they want to divert the discussion away from how to effectively use DTB, they are impacting others ability to learn.


I appreciate your comments.

Thank you.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

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TheRumpledOne
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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:57 pm

eudamonia wrote:Avery,

Actually, I think the problem isn't an ability to follow directions in and of itself.


Edward


I stand corrected. It is NOT inability. The problem is a DELIBERATE REFUSAL to follow instructions.

The instructions are there. Some people choose to follow. Some refuse to follow.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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Postby PTG » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:41 pm

eudamonia wrote:Avery,
The problem is psychological. Too much success is frightening to the average person. And you are not just teaching people to be successful, but extraordinarily successful. This may not seem like any sort of a bad thing. But it pushes people outside their comfort zone.


That's how I see it too although there is no such thing as an 'average person'. If ones psychological bias is towards failure, then that's what one will get. There's nobody who can change that but the individual himself.

Or, as H.L. Mencken put it: "Every man is his own hell."

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Postby PTG » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:53 am

Here is how forex4noobs puts it:

Being Undisciplined

I saved this one for last because, even though it is one of the most common and dangerous pitfalls, it is rarely discussed. A trader who lacks discipline can never make it in this business. Many traders are guilty of lacking discipline for many different reasons.

The main culprits are what I like to call ?System Jumpers?. These are traders that are constantly tweaking and changing their trading methods. These traders do not realize that learning to trade a system efficiently takes time.

System Jumpers are traders who lack the discipline to stick to, and learn how to trade, a system. They try it for a week and when it doesn?t work they jump to the next system or method.

Another common action of an undisciplined trader is abandoning a perfectly good trading method. Every trading method has periods in which it performs below average. My trading method averages 80% winning trades however some months it drops down to 60%. This is because market conditions change. No matter how versatile a method is it cannot perform, at peak efficiency in all market conditions. A true trader has the discipline to stick it out through the hard times.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:29 am

TRO,
I must not have put enough of these in my post.
:D :) :lol: :twisted:
I'm lovin ALL of forex. It's been great for the very reasons
eudo talks about. And more.
I started a few weeks before 3clipz3 did......I'm a little slower but how much sweeter will it be when I'm banking especially considering the slow learning monkey that I am. He also spent untold hrs trading day and night. (no job/kids/and 22yo?) I have to work 55-60 hrs a week and have 5 kids. NO EXCUSE because I've been around long enough that's for sure and yes I admit my "studies" have been scattered.
My eyes and ears will be open and trap shut for the next week or two.
My progress will be posted for the world to see. Thats' one thing I have been is TOTALLY honest about everything I'm doing including ALL my losses. Nothing to hide.

I'm starting to realize that instead of trying to become a trader like you that can trade ANY system I must first be able to trade A system. At that point I can then learn how to become a TRUE trader that can trade any system according to what the market dictates to me.
MightyOnes stuff intrigues the H**L out of me. Anytime/anywhere type of trading tactics.

But it looks as though I may have to save it for later being that I plan to quit my 15yr job by august. DTB's baby!
Procharged.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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TheRumpledOne
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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:01 am

"I'm starting to realize that instead of trying to become a trader like you that can trade ANY system"

See Pro, you still don't "get it".

All one has to do is FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS to trade ANY system. The only skill it takes is the ability to do as instructed.

Funny thing is the system doesn't matter at all. IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!!
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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TheRumpledOne
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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:44 pm

Found this on FF:

38 Steps to being a Trader
38 steps to becoming a trader

They are as follows:

1. We accumulate information - buying books, going to seminars and researching.
2. We begin to trade with our 'new' knowledge.
3. We consistently 'donate' and then realise we may need more knowledge or information.
4. We accumulate more information.
5. We switch the commodities we are currently following.
6. We go back into the market and trade with our 'updated' knowledge.
7. We get 'beat up' again and begin to lose some of our confidence. Fear starts setting in.
8. We start to listen to 'outside news' and to other traders.
9. We go back into the market and continue to 'donate'.
10. We switch commodities again.
11. We search for more information.
12. We go back into the market and start to see a little progress.
13. We get 'over-confident' and the market humbles us.
14. We start to understand that trading successfully is going to take more time and more knowledge than we anticipated.

MOST PEOPLE WILL GIVE UP AT THIS POINT, AS THEY REALISE WORK IS INVOLVED.

15. We get serious and start concentrating on learning a 'real' methodology.
16. We trade our methodology with some success, but realise that something is missing.
17. We begin to understand the need for having rules to apply our methodology.
18. We take a sabbatical from trading to develop and research our trading rules.
19. We start trading again, this time with rules and find some success, but over all we still hesitate when we execute.
20. We add, subtract and modify rules as we see a need to be more proficient with our rules.
21. We feel we are very close to crossing that threshold of successful trading.
22. We start to take responsibility for our trading results as we understand that our success is in us, not the methodology.
23. We continue to trade and become more proficient with our methodology and our rules.
24. As we trade we still have a tendency to violate our rules and our results are still erratic.
25. We know we are close.
26. We go back and research our rules.
27. We build the confidence in our rules and go back into the market and trade.
28. Our trading results are getting better, but we are still hesitating in executing our rules.
29. We now see the importance of following our rules as we see the results of our trades when we don't follow the rules.
30. We begin to see that our lack of success is within us (a lack of discipline in following the rules because of some kind of fear) and we begin to work on knowing ourselves better.
31. We continue to trade and the market teaches us more and more about ourselves.
32. We master our methodology and our trading rules.
33. We begin to consistently make money.
34. We get a little over-confident and the market humbles us.
35. We continue to learn our lessons.
36. We stop thinking and allow our rules to trade for us (trading becomes boring, but successful) and our trading account
continues to grow as we increase our contract size.
37. We are making more money than we ever dreamed possible.
38. We go on with our lives and accomplish many of the goals we had always dreamed of.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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