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PebbleTrader
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Postby PebbleTrader » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:45 pm

"Thinking about the space and tiem stuff I realized it doesn't really matter because every time frame higher will technically travel at a slower rate than the TF before. So there is no possible way I can see that H1 will be able to travel faster than M30 or any lower TF. It seems as you go lower the TF's get faster and faster (following the pattern made by M1-MN1) until you reach the tick chart which I would bet is the fastest of all in terms of move/time. The warping of space and time within the graph is a nice idea, but a higher TF just cannot travel faster than a lower TF.

The only thing that was measured and proven with the king factor and relativity's pip factor calculation was that the decay of speed is not linear, for example H1 and W1 seem to retain a lot of the speed (efficiency) of the lower TF. For AAPL, by my calculations, H1 is about 90% the speed of M15, even though it is 4 times as long, aand M5 is about 50% of the speed of M1 and it is 5 times as long. Without doing many calculations, one can see there is clearly a difference in the rate of speed decay.

But, it is still covering less space and more time no matter how you slice it. So I do not think you can use any spacetime bending to your favor because of how all the TF's seem to move slower than the next, all you can do is hope to use one that covers the most data, with the least decay of speed, which would be H1 and W1 for me."



I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote.

Can you illustrate it will pictures?
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deltaskelta
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Postby deltaskelta » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm

EDIT: meant to say two lines, not "pines"

Image

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Postby PebbleTrader » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:50 pm

^------The market is not actually moving that fast (purple).

It is, but it isn't :)

The larger time frames speed is much slower.

Check it out on ANY CHART.
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Postby PebbleTrader » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Can you illustrate what you put in words on previous image?

Are your stats subjective?
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Postby Relativity » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:59 pm

deltaskelta wrote:Thinking about the space and tiem stuff I realized it doesn't really matter because every time frame higher will technically travel at a slower rate than the TF before. So there is no possible way I can see that H1 will be able to travel faster than M30 or any lower TF. It seems as you go lower the TF's get faster and faster (following the pattern made by M1-MN1) until you reach the tick chart which I would bet is the fastest of all in terms of move/time. The warping of space and time within the graph is a nice idea, but a higher TF just cannot travel faster than a lower TF.

The only thing that was measured and proven with the king factor and relativity's pip factor calculation was that the decay of speed is not linear, for example H1 and W1 seem to retain a lot of the speed (efficiency) of the lower TF. For AAPL, by my calculations, H1 is about 90% the speed of M15, even though it is 4 times as long, aand M5 is about 50% of the speed of M1 and it is 5 times as long. Without doing many calculations, one can see there is clearly a difference in the rate of speed decay.

But, it is still covering less space and more time no matter how you slice it. So I do not think you can use any spacetime bending to your favor because of how all the TF's seem to move slower than the next, all you can do is hope to use one that covers the most data, with the least decay of speed, which would be H1 and W1 for me.

just for shits and gigs I made a graph showing how the bending of spacetime works in a 2d graph. Anyway, I'll be coming back down to earth to make real statistics after this post. LOL

Image


deltaskelta wrote:EDIT: meant to say two lines, not "pines"

Image


I understood where you are going since I end up using H1 and W1 alot.

Thats why I ended up with something called Pip Time Efficiency.

Another trader I know uses M15 and W1 purely because the frequent movement of price in M15 'covers more pips', under the context of W1. I find it 'too fast'.

If you want to go to the extreme it would mean looking at 1 week's worth of tick chart; uncompressed form. In its compressed form, it would be just a W1 bar with tick volume. I did tried looking there, but I find the data too 'unpredictable' and unstable.

Generally what we are trying to do is to find the timeframe that is :
1-covers a good deal of 'stable' price action -> the market side
2-matches our personality -> the trader side

If we can find a nice match of 1 and 2, and it can improve performance and confidence, why not?

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Postby Relativity » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:02 pm

PebbleTrader wrote:^------The market is not actually moving that fast (purple).

It is, but it isn't :)

The larger time frames speed is much slower.

Check it out on ANY CHART.


True, but what we are investigating is something via stats that popped up only on W1. Not once but at least 3 times on my count.

I've always wondered WHY the rule 'always following W1 trend' exist. Thats all.

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Postby PebbleTrader » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:05 pm

Image
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Postby Relativity » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:07 pm

deltaskelta wrote:
Relativity wrote:
deltaskelta wrote:So, relativity had given me the idea of studying time as well, and I had never thought of doing that before.

So I decided to do a time study to find out how long these moves take on average to make.

Here are the results:

Image


What I am trying to grasp is : what is the significance of space and time together in this sense? Obviously if I see an uptrend that takes the perfect amount of time and space retracement, then its probably a green light.

But, I don't know Im just trying to figure out what it's all telling me.

Anyone have any input?


I wouldn't go there too deeply about time and space without considering market participant makeup thou. Why?

I have 3 classes of 'indicators'
LIVE - my primary tools = main reasons for entry
ODDS - my secondary tools = only to pinpoint entries / exits + look for increased probability of trades
STATS - basic research that held its water, description of PA via stats

Doing these stats are going to be useful, but I would keep the eventual results / tools somewhere in between ODDS and STATS. Hope you get what I mean.

FYI check Nature of Trends page 69 / 70.


hmm I do know what you mean here about the odds and stats, but I'm confused as to what your live or primary tools would be.

Could you give an example just for clarity?


Primary tools e.g. :
Psychological lines / rounded numbers
Current D1 and W1 high / low / open on a H1 chart
Barros Swings
Market Profile

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Postby PebbleTrader » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:10 pm

How useful are speed stats if it's using compressed data?
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Postby deltaskelta » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:33 pm

PebbleTrader wrote:"Thinking about the space and tiem stuff I realized it doesn't really matter because every time frame higher will technically travel at a slower rate than the TF before. So there is no possible way I can see that H1 will be able to travel faster than M30 or any lower TF. It seems as you go lower the TF's get faster and faster (following the pattern made by M1-MN1) until you reach the tick chart which I would bet is the fastest of all in terms of move/time. The warping of space and time within the graph is a nice idea, but a higher TF just cannot travel faster than a lower TF.

The only thing that was measured and proven with the king factor and relativity's pip factor calculation was that the decay of speed is not linear, for example H1 and W1 seem to retain a lot of the speed (efficiency) of the lower TF. For AAPL, by my calculations, H1 is about 90% the speed of M15, even though it is 4 times as long, aand M5 is about 50% of the speed of M1 and it is 5 times as long. Without doing many calculations, one can see there is clearly a difference in the rate of speed decay.

But, it is still covering less space and more time no matter how you slice it. So I do not think you can use any spacetime bending to your favor because of how all the TF's seem to move slower than the next, all you can do is hope to use one that covers the most data, with the least decay of speed, which would be H1 and W1 for me."



I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote.

Can you illustrate it will pictures?


"Thinking about the space and tiem stuff I realized it doesn't really matter because every time frame higher will technically travel at a slower rate than the TF before. So there is no possible way I can see that H1 will be able to travel faster than M30 or any lower TF. It seems as you go lower the TF's get faster and faster (following the pattern made by M1-MN1) until you reach the tick chart which I would bet is the fastest of all in terms of move/time. The warping of space and time within the graph is a nice idea, but a higher TF just cannot travel faster than a lower TF. "

By this I mean:

Image

as you can see the bigger the TF gets, the more it decays, all we can hope for is a slower decay of efficiency from the next TF higher, which is represented by relativity's pip factor, and augmented (IMO) by my king factor:

Image

I know a lot of people here adhere to the fact that "price is the same on all TF's, and I have to admit I am still trying to completely understand that, (any help appreciated) but this is meant to be taken with respect to the candles, for example if I am targeting to hold my day trades for an hour, I now know:

-What the hourly range is (how much space I can cover)
-How long it will on average take to cover that space
-How much efficiency I lose by targeting an hour instead of something like 15 minutes, or two hours, etc.

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