Completely Lost - NeoTicker Newbies

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jposey2
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Completely Lost - NeoTicker Newbies

Postby jposey2 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:44 pm

I've been using the NT for a few days now (the new V.4 trial) and I find the system completely overwhelming.

It's definitely NOT user friendly.........and, it doesn't react to 'standards' as you would expect it to. There are so many 'un-standard' menus etc.

Michal......this is a very steep learning curve type of program. I can't even follow the online Users Tutorial.

Are we sure we're headed in the right direction when other firms i.e. NinjaTrader is presently modifying their entire system to do the same things NT & TS does......but with any data vendor, and brokerage etc........

Why are we trying to recreate the wheel?
Regards,
Jim

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Re: Completely Lost - NeoTicker Newbies

Postby michal.kreslik » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:28 pm

jposey2 wrote: I've been using the NT for a few days now (the new V.4 trial) and I find the system completely overwhelming.

It's definitely NOT user friendly.........and, it doesn't react to 'standards' as you would expect it to. There are so many 'un-standard' menus etc.

Michal......this is a very steep learning curve type of program. I can't even follow the online Users Tutorial.

Are we sure we're headed in the right direction when other firms i.e. NinjaTrader is presently modifying their entire system to do the same things NT & TS does......but with any data vendor, and brokerage etc........

Why are we trying to recreate the wheel?
Regards,
Jim


Yes, NeoTicker is less user friendly than Tradestation. It's because it's not designed for people to play around with the platform, enjoy its colored icons and animations, but rather to make money with it.

It is a trade-off between a productivity and the "niciness". Let's have an example: are YOU cutting and pasting a text in your favorite text editor by selecting the text, then clicking on some nice colored "cut" icon, then placing your mouse cursor to the place the text should go and finally clicking another nice colored "paste" icon?

I doubt it. And if you do, you are not using your computer productively. More probably you just press ctrl-x and ctrl-v and that's it!

It's exactly the same with NeoTicker - you do the work in the "ctrl-x ctrl-v" style, but first you have to learn how do you cut and paste. I agree that there could be some "intermediate level", but then, I'm glad that NeoTicker developers are rather focusing on making the platform robust and on adding new features than on making NeoTicker more fancy.

The "standards" you are referring to are actually not standards, but they are the habits that you developed when you were using your previous platform. One example for all - if you enter the "standard" Tradestation FX pair notation - "EURUSD", nothing will show on your NeoTicker chart. It's because "EURUSD" is actually totally non-standard. It should read "EUR/USD" - in which case the data loads to your chart fine in NT.

Michal
Last edited by michal.kreslik on Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby eudamonia » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:30 pm

Jim,

As a new user myself (been using NeoTicker consistantly for about 1 month)I have experienced the frustration of trying to understand certain idiosychracies of NeoTicker. Just yesterday I spent about an hour trying to figure out how to get my Forex data to display 4 decimal places instead of the standard 2. Yes it was in the main menu under preferences, but how was I supposed to know that (and trust me there were plenty of other menus I looked through first).

But here's the reason why I'm making the effort. When you can figure it out, NeoTicker is like a Bugatti
She's an unbelieveably fast, lean and customizable trading monster. The possiblities are mind boggling. Pretty much anything you can think of can be done.

Of course this leads us back to why we miss the ease of TradeStation and similar platforms. Because possibilities are limited, menus and customizations are simple (and limited) and because its comfortable. TradeStation is more like a Corolla
Simple, easy to use, reliable (oh well maybe not) but certainly hardly a driving legend.

My recommendation is take you time. Don't feel you have to rush. Not everyone is a genius programmer like Michal who can pick it up quickly (and even he didn't learn it in 5 minutes). Personally, I'm giving myself an entire year to learn NeoTicker and convert all of my TradeStation indicators and strategies. If I feel I can't be comfortable with NeoTicker after that period of time and that I still can't learn how to maximize her driving performance, well then I'll throw in the towel. Somehow, just like a bugatti, I think NeoTicker will get under my skin.

Time to go drive!

Edward

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.....just a frustrated old man.....

Postby jposey2 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:45 pm

Of course in hindsight I know your right. It's hard to to drive a car in the U.S. only to visit London and steering wheel is on the other side.......

I must convince myself that I'm making the right decision and go into hiding where I can study the software carefully, without grandchildren interuptions...

I will give it my best shot.
Jim

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Re: .....just a frustrated old man.....

Postby michal.kreslik » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:03 pm

jposey2 wrote: Of course in hindsight I know your right. It's hard to to drive a car in the U.S. only to visit London and steering wheel is on the other side.......

I must convince myself that I'm making the right decision and go into hiding where I can study the software carefully, without grandchildren interuptions...

I will give it my best shot.
Jim


If someone is lost in NeoTicker, he's still got friends at kreslik.com who are gonna help him to find the way back home :)

NeoTicker is not for everyone: it's only for people who are taking trading as a serious business, not as a casino-like amusement.



"We can do anything we want to do if we stick to it long enough."
- Helen Keller


"Press on. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistance. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated dererlicts. Persistance and determination alone are omnipotent. "
- Calvin Coolidge



Michal

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Postby 4x=0 » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:18 am

eudamonia wrote:TradeStation is more like a Corolla
Simple.


that is hilarous [schild=4 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]good stutff[/schild]

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Postby michal.kreslik » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:43 pm

4x=0 wrote:
eudamonia wrote:TradeStation is more like a Corolla
Simple.


that is hilarous [schild=4 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]good stutff[/schild]


You mean Tradestation or Corolla? :lol: :lol:

This is one of my former "platforms" :D (picture taken in Italy, where my sister is living):



But I'd rather see myself driving this trading platform: :lol:



Sooner or later, I'm gonna get it :D After all, we are planning an informational visit to the Bentley dealer here in Scottsdale, AZ with Avery :D

Michal

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Completely Lost -- NeoTicker Newbies

Postby stuart18020 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:45 pm

Jim et al.

NeoTicker Newbies can learn to do basic NT navigation quickly by referring to:

http://newsletter.neoticker.com/?cat=23

You will find a series of videos by fellow NT user, Tazman, directed to this end.

I have suggested to NT that a link to these "how to" videos be featured on its Home Page.

Stuart

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Postby TheLonelyTrader » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:31 am

Michal,

I have to take exception to your characterizations, of both the originator of this thread and of the program itself. Further, I must take exception to your inference that those who simply trade with simpler charting packages are not serious about making money. The wealthiest trader I know currently uses his FX broker's Java charts with not more than four indicators. He probably makes more money in an average week than you clear in one year from trading (and combined with everything else you derive income from.) I'm not saying this to insult you, just reminding you that your perspective is just that...a perspective.

The documentation for NT is spotty and very poorly written, indeed. And I do not think that Jposey2 was merely concerned with making his charts look "fancy". I assume he is sincere. I share his frustration with the software -- and the developers (although not Chan himself) have admitted that they are behind the curve on presenting essential material in a professional, coherent package.

There is absolutely no reason to think that a trade off is required between a product's robustness and its accessibility. I understand that NeoTicker is written for a different clientele, but this does not change the fact that even for people who are able to program in C#, .NET and NT's homegrown "language," the learning curve is unreasonably steep and vast segments of its capabilities are inaccessible except when one stumbles across them.

Jposey2, help may be on the way. I suspect, given my emails from TickQuest, that they intend to improve the documentation. So stick with it and keep asking questions. You might like NinjaTrader's multibroker version much more. It is quite good and integrates with NeoTicker, although you won't be able to enjoy the multibroker aspect with NeoTicker -- which pretty much defeats the purpose of NeoTicker for most people who are comparing the two products. NinjaTrader's order routing technology, Zen-Fire, looks promising as well, although I believe it is still in testing. The SuperDOM is a fantastic trading tool.

Either way you slice it, NeoTicker has some growing up to do. I expect that, after a few more iterations, it will get easier to navigate through all the features and one will be able to set up the basics in much less time and with much less frustration. I also think that at some point, if Chan wants to stay competitive, he will have to hire some outside help and build in a multibroker/multifeed functionality...not to mention a professional firm or privately contracted author to write a real user manual.

Perhaps someone on this forum should pitch their skills to Chan?...

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Postby michal.kreslik » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:24 am

TheLonelyTrader,

I know that there are traders who are making millions without any fancy computer technology. In fact, I know one guy who made a couple of millions in front of his old 17" CRT monitor personally. I never said that you can't make millions without the latest software/hardware.

Everyone should adopt his own trading style and my trading style needs some computer-related tinkering. As long as it is paying off for me, I'm not going to change it :)

Also, the trade-off of having the open/functional platform or a user friendly platform for the same money is apparent with NeoTicker. I'm glad they're focusing on the former, not on the latter.

Have you ever heard of Emacs? That's a UNIX-based editor that many regard as the best editor ever written. Yet, it's very tough to learn. Beginners are completely lost. But people who mastered it say that they'd never trade it for anything else.

Thus, I am completely uninterested in the user interface as long as the program is delivering the functionality I need.

Michal

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