MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

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aspTrader
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Postby aspTrader » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:56 pm

forest wrote:Of course this is only one minor issue to be considered, but when you are up and running on one system as soon as you download it, as opposed to having to spend time configuring the software when you would rather be experimenting with trading scenarios...

The problem with this point of view is this...

The selection of a trading platform is a significant and strategic decision. To take a decision merely because a data feed can be configured for one platform more quickly than another is absurd.

NeoTicker is designed to work with multiple data feeds and multiple brokers and the two are not and should not be the same... (The why of that is another question.)

So, yes... You do need to spend a few minutes thinking about data feed issues when using NeoTicker because there are multiple options.

If you don't have a few minutes to consider the issues related to data feed and their configuration in this kind of strategic decision then I agree that NeoTicker is not for you.

By the way, do you understand that there are significant issues with the IB data feed apart from the NeoTicker interface to it and why it's not really a good idea to use that data feed if you're a short-term trader?

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Re: MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

Postby aspTrader » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:14 am

michal.kreslik wrote:11. I'll quote aspTrader, one of the best EL and NeoTicker programmers around (I guess he will ask some questions here, too):

aspTrader wrote:- So, long term, having ActiveX external-to-the-platform control
over the platform itself will turn out to be important (to achieve the
goal of not "intruding" on the strategy code itself like all GAs do
that support TS).

hmmm... Let's see. Which platform already supports ActiveX control?

Make a guess...


well, I guess he is talking about his beloved NeoTicker :) But my question is: does MetaTrader4 support ActiveX control?

Michal,

Yesterday you attended the demonstration I did for NeoTicker's Grid Optimizer. You saw how simple the strategy and indicator were that were to be optimized when the chart was optimized... the CHART not the strategy.

What you saw was done with ActiveX. It's ActiveX capability which makes it possible to have a wide range of options for optimization of strategy elements (like BarType/BarSize) and even optimizers now and in the future without the need for inserting code into the strategy as is the case with GGO.

IMO, ActiveX is a strategic necessity for those wanting flexibility vis-a-vis optimizers in the future.

The strategic questions, IMO, are these...

What functionality and capabilities do I need to have robustness and flexibility in the future? (Flexibliity vis-a-vis brokers, data feeds, add-ons, etc.)

Which platform vendor(s) have had the conscious objective to design and build in that robustness and flexibility?

Have they succeeded in the building of it?

Who is their primary type of business customer? Am I that type of customer?

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Re: MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

Postby aspTrader » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:29 am

Lenar wrote:
michal.kreslik wrote:3. what is the cost of data feed(s)?

3. Its not your problem, its brokers:)) He finding feeds and distibutes them into all trading terminals.

This is, IMO, a fundamental problem with MT4 for traders as I currently understand it.

Success in trading is about control.

Isn't that the problem with TS for more sophisticated traders. TS is the data feed and the execution platform and the broker.

And that inevitably leads to problems because there are different objectives and priorities among organizations and people providing them.

I want complete control of the data feed choice and the broker choice and I want those choices to be independent of each other.

I want to have as much control as possible over all the factors that impact my success or failure.

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Postby Lenar » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:36 am

michal.kreslik wrote:Lenar,

thanks again for your answers. New questions arise as we learn about the features in the new NeoTicker Grid Optizimer that will be reelased shortly http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=346

- is it possible to optimize accross multiple computers for maximum horspower?
- is it possible to suspend the optimization, allowing modification of rules and ranges and then resume?

Thanks,
Michal


Hi Michal,

1. there is no opportunity to use several comps in one network to rise horspowers on optimization. But Genetical algorithmg make optimization fast enough. So i think there is no need (at least for now) to use several comps.

2. NO. Its possible to stop optimization and change parameters. But after that if you will push Start button new testing begins. The previous test is not resuming.
Best Regards, Lenar Fatkhullin
MetaQuotes Software Corp.
http://www.metaquotes.net

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Re: MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

Postby Lenar » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:06 am

aspTrader wrote:This is, IMO, a fundamental problem with MT4 for traders as I currently understand it.


Hi ASP,

I dont think that its a problem. If you dont like datafeeds of one MetaTrader 4 broker and the broker himself do not satisfys you, you are always may choose onother one. By the moment its about 90 brokers who uses MetaTrader 4.

Also we are in MetaQuotes just cant imagine following picture:
1. you use some softs for analysis and trading. These softs have to be compatible with brokers server. If they are not compatible its becoming a problem, when you are trying to open position. Analysis its good, but without trading its useless.
2. you want to use some datafeeds, which are different to broker ones. For analysis its ok, but for trading - no. When you will try to open position you will use brokers quotes only (taking you attention to the fact that these quotes are different to yours). How can you rely to feeds which are from the begining are different to broker ones?

We dont think that sometime this picture will change - you will always use brokers quotes.

so

aspTrader wrote:I want complete control of the data feed choice and the broker choice and I want those choices to be independent of each other.

I want to have as much control as possible over all the factors that impact my success or failure.


i think it will never happend. Broker (in this case) means brokers feeds and compatible soft also. If broker can offer several softs for trading, he will still offer only one feeds.
Best Regards, Lenar Fatkhullin

MetaQuotes Software Corp.

http://www.metaquotes.net

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Postby michal.kreslik » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:33 am

aspTrader,

it's true we have grown too much accustomed to the all-in-one type of work with Tradestation. Development platform, history data provider and broker rolled into one.

The troubles it brings once you're not content with one of these layers is clear:
  • you can't change the layer

It requires more work to choose and choose wisely. But at the same time, you are free.

Forest, imagine yourself being presented with a package of:
  • a wife
  • a house
  • and car

8)

Isn't that terrific to have all in one for one price? :)

No, it isn't. Choosing a wife, a house and a car requires more work but is definitely worth the hassle.

aspTrader, there might be issues however with different history data provider and a broker. I have never used that horrible Tradestation GAIN capital group for my FX broker, so I have always calculated my signals based on TS data and entered my orders with a different broker by hand. Sometimes the trade was successfully closed in TS, but with my broker the price behavior was slightly different, so I had to close the trade sooner than the profit target was hit.

After attending the aspTrader's online demo of the new Grid Optimizer, I am clear about the matter. The Grid Optimizer employs alternative search methods (nearest neighbor search aka "SmartSearch", Monte Carlo simulation) that are way more effective than the standard exhausitve optimization. Although it's still not genetics, it's pretty good.

The only issue concerning me right now is the FX tick data availability for backtesting.

MetaTrader4 is a great platform, too, especially for the FX trader and the alpha version of the builtin GA looks promising.

Right now, it seems it's more probable I'd go for NeoTicker. In this case, anyway, I would learn MetaQuotes Language 4 and start using MetaTrader4 as my backup platform, since you never know - what if the TickQuest management slips into apathy towards their customers' needs in a one year's time just as the Tradestation management did?

Lenar, I hope you are reading this - can you point us to some cutting edge features in which MetaTrader4 is superior to NeoTicker4? After all, you know the platform you develop best. Maybe we have overlooked some important issue.

Switching the platform where you have already done so much work and leaping into the dark is a tough decision.

But I am a pioneer of my life.

"The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from shore."
- Dale Carnegie


Michal
Last edited by michal.kreslik on Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

Postby michal.kreslik » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:38 am

Lenar wrote:2. you want to use some datafeeds, which are different to broker ones. For analysis its ok, but for trading - no. When you will try to open position you will use brokers quotes only (taking you attention to the fact that these quotes are different to yours). How can you rely to feeds which are from the begining are different to broker ones?


Precisely, Lenar. This has already happened to me. Different quotes on my trade-signal-generating feed and my broker's feed with the resulting different trading outcomes. Not quite a pleasant feeling.

You wrote your two articles in the meantime when I was writing mine :)

Michal

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Postby Lenar » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:58 am

michal.kreslik wrote:Lenar, I hope you are reading this - can you point us to some cutting edge features in which MetaTrader4 is superior to NeoTicker4? After all, you know the platform you develop best. Maybe we have overlooked some important issue.


Michal, i dont think thats its too good idea when representative of one company comments products of another one. Sorry.
Best Regards, Lenar Fatkhullin

MetaQuotes Software Corp.

http://www.metaquotes.net

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Postby michal.kreslik » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:26 am

Please do, Lenar!

You see, you have been asked to do that publicly by us, so no one can possibly blame you for empty advertising.

This forum is here to find the best platform to switch to for many dissatisfied TS users, so every infromation that can be gained at this stage is of gold's worth for us.

Don't be afraid to comment on NT4's features as opposed to MT4. If any information provided by you should slip into being a flawless lie, aspTrader would certainly be very glad to correct you in no time :lol: :lol:

Just have a look at the 100+ people watching this thread like a hawk regularly:



Click on the icon above (you'll find it in the upper right part of this webpage) and you'll see that currently 41 registered users watch this topic and there has been 120 anonymous (non-registered) visits to this topic.

I'm passing you the word. Go ahead, please.

Michal

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Re: MetaTrader 4 and MQL 4 overview

Postby michal.kreslik » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:52 pm

aspTrader wrote:Yesterday you attended the demonstration I did for NeoTicker's Grid Optimizer.


It should be noted for the record that the Grid Optimizer will sell separately from the NeoTicker and "It will be priced at least 600 to 700." - preliminary quote I got from the NT support.

The Grid Optimizer won't be available for a monthly lease as opposed to NT.

Honestly, I'm not quite wild about purchasing grid optimizer for "at least $600 - $700" if I want to try NeoTicker on a monthly subscription basis first before I buy.

But aspTrader says that the Grid optimizer will be free until September or so. I will check with TickQuest and will keep you posted here.

Michal

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