No Spreads @ MB Trading?

discussion on brokers, order execution, order automation and everything broker-related

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
Kenyuki
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

No Spreads @ MB Trading?

Postby Kenyuki » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:52 am

Hello everyone,

I am referring to TRO's post here.

I assure you, I've read the whole thing for at least 15x and even drew pictures to help myself understand what this was all about. I hope TRO doesn't get upset that I am bringing this up again (really sorry, I am a dummy), because I'm still confused:

Ok, so from what I understand is, if you trade with MB Trading, you only pay for commissions and do not get charged for spreads anymore (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I also read that, in order to buy at the bid price, you will need to place a buy limit (and sell limit to sell at ask price, I assume?) - so that when you enter a trade, you will not run into minus anymore due to spreads.

So how do I close my order if I bought at the bid price? I'm using MT4 on MB Trading. If I click on "close order", it automatically closes the order at the ask price (if I'm long). If I click on "buy" (on the "close order" mask), then it generates a new order.

I am really confused, please help.

Thanks,
Ken

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
pablo101
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:10 pm
Reputation: 0
Real name: Pete
Gender: None specified

Postby pablo101 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:26 am

Hello,

Have you tried a MBT demo account?
What line? The line that tells you which way you are trading! - MO

jhtumblin
rank: 50+ posts
rank: 50+ posts
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:42 am
Reputation: 0
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: None specified

Postby jhtumblin » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:22 pm

It's simple, the spread always exists, there has to be a difference between what the buyers bid and the sellers ask. That concept is understood right?

The difference with MBTrading is that you can place orders at the bid or at the ask and the quote will change to match your order. With a fixed spread broker, you will pay the spread no matter what level you place your order.

Example: At MBT the current quotes for the EU are as follows,

Bid 1.482620 Ask 1.482680

The spread is currently 6 tenths of a pip. If you place a market order to enter and exit the trade you WILL pay the spread on one side + comm. However if you buy with a limit order at 1.482620 and then sell with a market order at a higher price, you paid no spread at all. Your orders can also be placed inside the spread and depending on market speed, you will actually see the ask or bid change to match your order. This can also be seen in market depth otherwise known as Level II.

At a fixed spread broker, you will pay the spread no matter what. If you buy market or limit, and the spread is 2 pips, the second your order is filled you will automatically be negative 2 pips. There is no way around it.

As far as placing the correct order type on MT4, I would sign up for a webinar through MBT. I would answer your question here but I still trade through Navigator.

I hope that answers your question regarding the spread, because in essence the spread is what traders make it. The bid can and does match the ask at times, so why would you want to go negative trade value from the beginning when it just isn't so.

IMO the biggest advantage to MBT is that there is no deal desk. If you don't know what a deal desk is, look up bucket shop on the web and you will see why trading with any fixed spread broker is a load of crap.

User avatar
noone22
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:50 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Re: No Spreads @ MB Trading?

Postby noone22 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:06 am

Kenyuki wrote:I am really confused, please help


1) Nothing to confuse about. Spread with bid and ask
still does exist even with MBT.
But the thing is, that actual spread on MBT is
2-4 times lower, as compared to other (usual) brokers.
0.5 pip for EURUSD and 1 pips for AUDUSD -
how that's sound? And these are typical spreads
during high-volume market hours.

2) You cannot experience full ECN functionality under MT4.
It will always buy as ask, and sell at bid.
You have to have MBT Trading Navigator to see some tricks in action.

3) The rule of thumb is - that you will (usually - 80% of cases)
still buy at ask and sell at bid, but because
of narrow spread (see item 1) - this doesn't make much difference
even for scalps with 5 pips profit-target

4) The tricks are - that sometimes (not all the time),
your order may be filled at better price.
For example - when buying, you could be filled
somewhere between bid and ask (inclusive) -
but probability of being filled is increasing, the more
closer your limit price is to ask.
Raughly, you'll be filled at ask - 2% of the time,
0.25 pips above ask (with 0.5 pips spread as an example) -
10% of times,
0.25 pips below the bid - 20% of times,
and reminder - filled at ask (anyway) or
not filled at all.

Again - you cannot see this under MT4,
you could do this only under MBT navigator.

5) With MBT MT4 you could place a buy limit order -
at any price, irregadless, what current price is.
On Alpari MT4, for example - for buy limit order
limitation exists - set open price must differs
from current price for 30 (!!) pips - you
actually cannot trade BuyZone via Alpari MT4
(I mean - trade correctly, with limit orders,
you may trade with market orders,
but this is not a proper trading).

User avatar
Kenyuki
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby Kenyuki » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:50 am

jhtumblin and noone22,

Thank you very much for your advice.

I did not realize this was not possible on MT4 - that was the main cause of my confusion / frustration. I was basically looking for a functionality it does not have.

Anyway, MB Navigator will be the way to go then. I'm scrapping MT4 now. Thanks again.

noone22 wrote:you
actually cannot trade BuyZone via Alpari MT4
(I mean - trade correctly, with limit orders,
you may trade with market orders,
but this is not a proper trading).


If I only I knew about this any earlier... thank you for this.

Ken.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
noone22
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:50 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby noone22 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:08 am

You still need MT4 - for charts and TRO indicators,
and some demo trades.
But MBT Navigator - for placing orders
(demo - first, real - later, once you're confident).
MBT does have MT4, so if you have account with them -
you could use both their MBT Nav and MT4.

User avatar
Kenyuki
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby Kenyuki » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Thanks noone22, I now have both and will proceed as advised.

Ken.

User avatar
Kenyuki
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby Kenyuki » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:55 pm

Hello again,

I have been testing MB Navigator, and I'm still not quite sure if I am doing this correctly.

What type of order do I need to place if I use the BuyZone? Is Stop Limit + TTO the right one, if I want to place a specific entry and exit price, as well as a S/L (bearing in mind that I do not want to pay for the spread)?

Thanks,
Ken

User avatar
noone22
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:50 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby noone22 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:03 pm

Kenyuki wrote:What type of order do I need to place if I use the BuyZone? Is Stop Limit + TTO the right one, if I want to place a specific entry and exit price, as well as a S/L (bearing in mind that I do not want to pay for the spread)?


Yes, Stop Limit + TTO is the one.
But it is not the only one, you may require.
And all TTO orders will work, whatever TRO system
you're trading: BuyZone, DTB or Rat one.
Generally speaking, MBT does have lots of different
types of orders and it's good to learn (at least - to know)
details of each of them:
http://mbtrading.com/forexOrderTypes.aspx#

I have a detailed post on the matter of MBT orders specifics
somewhere in this thread
http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... highlight=
(after page 20, but don't know exactly & cannot easily find it).

User avatar
Patch
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:13 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Virginia
Real name: Jeff
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby Patch » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:23 pm

noone22

I've done several searches looking for your posts on z-line thread. Do you recall any unusual terms that you included in one or more of your posts?

Oh I love your id icon. Is that the lone peg, bloody scoundrel in front of the Key West Grille in Myrtle Beach on Broadway. You must have been there after I did the same thing. Becareful, he bite my finger off and that is when I began my career as Patch the Pirate. And now if you see me with a black hat, it came from Peg the Hatless Pirate.
ENOUGH being a Yalie for me Back to the Sea. "What i can lose, i can win" "YES YOU CAN" - dragon33 -"Pick one method and one pair and stick with them until you master it. "The choice is yours - success or failure." TRO

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “brokers”