Trading sucks!!

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FXfreak
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Postby FXfreak » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:00 pm

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WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!! too emotional for trading.

You cannot have this mind-set and trade profitably.
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There were times where I was calm and rational and my decisions also were wrong ;-)
But I agree...my emotional words only should express my despair when it comes to trading...


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I know you are thinking that i may be spewing s**t here, but it really is 95% psychological and only 5% talent.
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This is why I was asking for a live session via skype. My psychological handicap can't be solved via words or nice screenshots. It is something I have to feel. I have to feel the mindset and I have to compare it with me. Exactly this can't be solved in a forum :-/


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Look, i already know that by me spending time with you on skype that it will not help, as i have tried that before. I have PERSONALLY in PERSON tried to teach people before and it doesn't work.
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After reading forums for three years I know that I need some kind of mentor. The mentor shows me his feelings and emotions while trading. This only works with a live session...people you were teaching were different, some cancel trading because of a lack of screentime some finish it because they are unable to understand it. Reasons are different and it is impossible to say if somebody will understand trading by a live session.


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All of this comes down to three things.
1. Screen time
2. # 1 leads to a better feel or understanding of PA and what the other traders are doing.
3. The absolute desire to not accept anything less than success. Trading profitably(consistently) is the hardest thing in the world to achieve. You can take the smartest person in the world and put him against the dumbest person in the world, and neither have an edge starting out. It comes down to sheer will.
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This doesn't help me because it was my will for three years. But to put me up to the next stage I want to see a successfull guy trading live. I want to FEEL it. Screenshots show rational aspects and no feelings. Everybody is different and when it comes to trading and the understanding everybody needs different techniques. Some need screenshots, some need a live session, some need both.


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You also to have to consider the following. What i have shown is HOW I TRADE, and it may not work for you. The people on this site that have become successful have taken the PRINCIPLE of the ideas that were presented, and then tweaked it to how they see things.
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I know that it may not work for me but I only want to answer this question with NO after I felt you trading.


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No offense, but if i wanted to teach i would open up a room and charge $500 per month and look to get 300 people in there. I cannot do this for two reasons. First, i know that at least 95% of them would just be pissing their money to me, because i already know 98ish% of them will not make it. Second, it is not worth it to me and i don?t want the headache of dealing with other people.
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You are wealthy enough that you don't need 300 guys that give you their bucks. In my case I'm just asking you in a very nice way to help me. I don't piss on you if I don't get the results after a live session because I know after three years of learning that our brains may be very different. If this would be the fact than I would also say THANK YOU.


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I will be 100% upfront. i am not going to spend that time with you bec i know it will be a waste of time for both of us. And to be honest i wouldn't have the time right now, with trading and having to deal with some medical issues that the "Dr.s" cant figure out. I am fairly sure i have a PHD in ENDOCRINOLOGY based on all the research that i HAD to do. I will however go over your charts and ideas here in this thread. When you post them (if it is not on the chart), include the pair and time frame so i do not have to try and figure it out.
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You are giving me thousands of reasons why it shouldn't work. I only ask you for a live session. Nothing more. You don't have to feel responsible if I'm still losing after a live session. We write thousands of words, spend hours for answering on forums...but why? Two or three live sessions would give me the final answer what my problem is and if I ever will be able to gain money...I just want to look and feel...

Enjoy the day :?

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Karma
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Postby Karma » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:37 pm

I spend next to 24/7 in front of my charts

Literally ALWAYS running

The information gained and experience learned from the time I've spent and continuously spend can truly not be passed through in an hour or twos worth of a live session. I've personally spent some time in live training like es/pip was talking about

Ultimately my time and money was pissed away, only your dedication to success will provide you a solution. It's truly not a matter of know or don't know. It's dedication
"Profit is found in a thinking mind. If you come to this . . . with pen and paper in hand then you will fail to find the beauty that exists within yourself." - MightyOne

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dojirock
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Postby dojirock » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:08 pm

Fx Freak,

your focusing on the wrong solution.
trading is actually about disconnecting from your feelings.Take a break clear your head, try again.

I feel your frustration, but that only adds to the problem.
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO
"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."
"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:23 pm

There are three strategies when it comes to risk management:

Dud: full/partial take profit, full stop.

The Dud is a pip for pip strategy that focuses on r/r ratios.

Implosive: partial profit, partial stop loss.

TP_5/3, SL_3/2, 3/4, 4/5, TP_5/3, TP_3/0.

(implosion) (restoration) (implosion)

Explosive: safety through accumulation, lots = space, willing to implode if it means setting up an explosion in lot size.

Initially 4 lots / 50 space.
Accumulation to 20 lots.

20/4 at -40 pips = 4 lots / 50 space.
Position stayed low, you accumulated w/ rets, you LOST 40 space, you didn't lose ('your') money.

20/4 at -35 = 4 lots / 75 space.
50 pips is your money, 25 pips are not.
You lost 35 pips of space, but made 25 pips after reversion.

Same scenario only you accumulated to 35 lots.
35/4 at -35 = 4 lots / 131 pips.
You LOST 35 space, you gained 81 pips profit.

paweldobkowski
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Postby paweldobkowski » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:56 pm

@FXfreak

dont give up man, everyone went through that stage at least 100 times :wink:


Maybe tell us what You're doing. How do You approach markets?
Also, are You able to trade demo account profitably?

if I remember right es/pip came here and he was already profitable. He just took some of MO teachings and put it into work. Dragon was already profitable before he started to trade ZLs. It really comes down to emotions.

1) For me the biggest change was that I accepted that anything can happen. As ES says "react to what happens". Orders are stacked on every level. ZLs are nice "order stack pointers" and they will almost always give You the reaction but it might be just 1-2 pips. Sometimes price will go further because more orders will come in (stop, market or limit on small pullbacks etc.) not because ZL on M5 pushed the price 10, 20 or 30 pips. Also - if You dont know which zone / level to trade take the most extreme one (or change Your stops and position size accordingly). Better safe than sorry.

2) You need to base Your trading on FACTS. I know that everybody seems to be doing that but in fact very few people are. I see WAY too many people taking full 10 - 20 pip stops trading M5. If price is moving against You than the FACT is that its going against You. Many people are waiting for price to resume the move in the direction that they are trading in. It all comes down to emotions. With open position people are more willing to HOPE than TRADE.

3) Maybe try higher time frames? The chart that You showed is M5. You trade that or it was just an example?

I dont know if any of these 3 points are related in any way to You or Your trading but it just came to my mind.





And dont worry about those 3 years. You are 3 years closer to making it!

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dchappy
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Postby dchappy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:22 pm

Trading , like most professions in life , requires that you study everything to find the 10% that you will actually use .

Patience and Trust ..........

Never Give Up......

FXfreak
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Postby FXfreak » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:54 am

@MightyOne

Thanks for your suggestions about positions and different trading styles. I was trying to trade intraday and your trading is based on higher timeframes. The advantage with daily/weekly/monthly tfs is that you don't have such a high frequency of dealer interventions like stop hunts. In the higher timeframes the big boys are accumulating their orders in one direction and try to add on the pullbacks. Intraday you have more "opponents" like dealers who try to target your stops.

So trading the longer timeframes should be easier BUT i can't get rich because it takes too long. So I have to use smaller tfs and in this case the rules are a little bit different.


@paweldobkowski

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It really comes down to emotions.
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This is right and wrong. Sure, if you are unable to control your emotions then nothing will work. BUT the MOST IMPORTANT THING is: You have to know what you are doing. So: I need rules! Rules make me confident. Confidence helps to control the emotions.

So the main thing is: I need rules which have an edge!


@dchappy

Thanks for your nice words. But after three years I was shortly before quitting the whole thing. I read lot of books, hundreds of threads, I watched the market 1000s of hours but at the end I'm still a typical retail loser.

FXfreak
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Postby FXfreak » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:07 am

Here are my trades from friday:

Trade 1:
I had my sl at -10 and moved it to be. My TP was the orange line below which was a m15 high. the nearest possible and riskless target I was able to find.

I was stopped out at be by the pip.

When should I have exited the trade? Is it a good idea to move sl to be?

For all the successfull traders: How would you have managed this trade?

Trade 2:
Classic r becomes s trade. I was up 18 pips and moved sl to be. My target was 10 pips above the last high which not hit.

I was stopped out at be.

How would you have managed this trade??

Trade 3:
I paniced a bit and was afraid that the move would go now without me. I entered again after I was stopped out. I lost -10 because I was wrong and price moved south.

How would you have managed this trade?? Was it a good idea to think that this area of support would hold? Do you take two trades in the same area or only just the first touch of the area?


Trade 4:
My winner: +10. I closed it at the low. In this case price moved south. I could have taken +70.

How would you have managed this trade??


Thanks!!



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Postby forexjpn » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm

Hi FXfreak,
My 2 cents...........
1.Your stop is too small........at 10pips you don't have any margin for 'error' and you are gonna be freaked out at even the slightest move toward your SL
2.You are moving your stop way too early, in fact, if you follow MO's methods, you shouldn't be moving it at all.
3.My trading improved significantly after I changed my way of thinking from trading lines to trading zones...........look at all your trades and see how many of them were actually 'right' after price closed over your line but not through your zone (supply/demand), maybe use your line to make adjustments to lot size, but don't put your SL there
4.judging by your 10pip SL, I'm presuming your lot size is too big..........lower your lot size and increase your SL............as MO says, make it so any losses will only make you laugh and then simply move on to your next trade.

Now, IMO, your entries are fine..........which makes me certain now that you have to increase your SL and to do that you have to decrease your lot size.......this will give you the balls to stay in a trade, give it some breathing room and I believe you will see your win:loss ratio increase significantly........subsequently your confindence will increase and you will realize your entries are good and you will trust yourself and your entries and so on and so forth..........
HTH.........I am writing this on the train and starting to feel a bit nauseous so not sure if what I'm writing is useful or not, lol.....

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:19 pm

I will go over your chart some time today.

Answer these questions.

1. Are you using a hard stop of 10? If so what % risk is that of your account.
2. Do you have a hard target, or are you targeting based on the PA on the chart?
3. Do you take all the trades that you want to take, or do you pass on some and take others based on any fear of losing?
4. What are you trying to accomplish account growth wise and time frame for this?
5. Are you currently working and have other income?
6. What times of day are you trading and can you trade?
7. Would you consider only trading Eur/usd when it comes to scalping? If i am not mistaken Oanda puts EU at .8-1.1 and GU at 1.8-2.1. If you are going to scalp tight range stuff i would suggest not giving up that extra spread. Mainly focus on Eu for scalping and trade GU or AU for higher % setups. I would prefer to see you just trade EU for now and focus just on that one, but obviously you can do what you are more comfortable with.
8. What would cause you to stop trading for the day? A loss limit? Profit gained? etc etc
edit--------

9. Are you just trading the m15 chart for your main setups?
10. Are you looking at smaller time frames inside of the time frame you are trading for your main setups?
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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