Starting From Scratch

If you don't know where to start, start here! Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Moderator: moderators

Mikeno
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:45 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male

Starting From Scratch

Postby Mikeno » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:02 am

Hello Everyone,

A new Newbie here.

First, I would like to thank all of you for your input on Krelsik.com. I was in the process of teaching myself to trade Options on equities when I came across the BuyZone strategy. TheRumpledOne has piqued my interest to say the very least.

A special thank you, to both Avery and Michal, for all the work that goes into this forum. It is very gracious of both of you to give your time and knowledge (my two favorite things) to others. Thanks again. I hope to contribute in the future.

But for now, can anyone tell me where to begin?

I have very little experience trading but, I have to start somewhere.

Beginner books?
Platform needed?
Data feed?
Broker?
Software?
Ability to write code?
Opinion on starting capital?
Etc?

Anything you can think of would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Mikeno

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

zeller4
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:16 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Geneva, FL
Gender: None specified

Postby zeller4 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:22 am

Mikeno,

Avery sent someone this link today in the Paltalk room:

http://www.babypips.com/school/

If you're able to listen / watch the market during the day, the Paltalk "Two Percent Club" is a spot where you could listen and learn.

You'll get a great no-nonsense education reviewing the things Avery teaches. Start with the Buyzone threads (or Tradezones for esignal) and MTC, ("Milk the Cows") or AAPL juice threads.

You'll get plenty of help in this forum...
hth
Kirk

User avatar
eudamonia
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:50 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Rocklin, CA
Real name: Edward Heming
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby eudamonia » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:21 am

Mikeno,

My advice as a beginner is to spend some time educating yourself on the various markets and the many ways to trade them.

www.investopedia.com is a great free resource for this.

After you've spent some time with this I strongly recommend that you figure out some goals for yourself. This may seem premature at this point but I assure you that this will help you focus on what you want to do. With so much information out there, indicators, methods etc. it can be overwhelming. Determining how much time you have and are willing to spend trading and what your percent return goals are will help you tremendously.

For example I have a trading friend who only has about 30 minutes a night to review the markets. When he and I started talking we discussed what trading setups might work for him. He now has a successful way of trading (he only takes a few trades a month) and he is seeing returns that satisfy his trading needs. I on the other hand could not trade the way he does, because my account return requirements are different and I have a lot more time (and the interest) to spend with the markets. As a daytrader I average more trades in a single day then he does all month. We both make money, we both achieve our goals, however, we are both very different traders.

So when you've reviewed some info out there begin to ask yourself some questions and see what you can come up with?

1) How many hours per day do you have to trade?
2) Do you work during the day or can you watch the market all day long?
3) What amount of dollars or percent on your account do you NEED to make?
4) What amount of dollars or percent on your account do you desire to make?
5) Do you like programming?
6) Do you like placing trades yourself?
7) Do you have any other desires from the market other than money (fame, being right, etc.)?

Suggestions

Beginner books?

I suggest Trading in the Zone (Mark Douglas) and Trading Day by Day (Chick Goslin)

Platform needed?

Lots of choices here. What markets will you trade? Are you going to be programming the platform for automated trading? Are costs an issue?

A free platform I suggest are NinjaTrader (you'll need data from your broker - even demo data is good). NinjaTrader is free as long as you are doing simulated trading. And it's $60 a month when you go live. Not too bad. You can do automated trading, order execution, charting etc. with NT.

Data feed?

Your broker may be the cheapest feed. eSignal feed is good but $$$.

Broker?

What are you trading? Are you trading multiple market types (futures and forex for example)? I trade MBTrading (for futures and stocks) and I know Avery and many others regard EFX (a subsidiary of MBTrading) very good for Forex.

Software?

Other software I recommend. Excel. Seriously.

Ability to write code?

Do you wish to be an automated trader? Then you'll need MAD skilzs for programming. Personally I'm a hack. I have other guys program for me. I'm too busy making money trading. It's all about what you want to do.

Opinion on starting capital?

Well the minimum I know of for Forex is $400 and the minimum for Futures is generally $5,000. Yet actually this really comes back to goal setting. If you need to put $1000k on the table every month to feed your family from your trading account it is a lot easier to do with a $100k account than a $5k account. The first requires a modest 1% a month return and the latter requires a 20% a month return.

Final words of advice.

There are at least 1000 ways to trade badly in the markets. There are at least 100 ways to trade well. EVERYONE and their grandmother will try to convince you/sell you their way. My personal opinion is that 99.9997% of the methods/indicators that are for sale aren't worth $4,999.99 (or whatever they're being sold for). Why? Because indicators/setups alone do not a great trader make! You are the secret to your success. That means that you alone must spend time with the markets deciding what works for you. Like being a Brain Surgeon experience counts for so very much in this endeavor.

Edward
Eudaimonia (pron.: you-die-moan-e-a) (Greek: εὐδαιμονία) is a classical Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness'. The less subjective "human flourishing" is often preferred as a translation.

Mikeno
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:45 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male

Postby Mikeno » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:16 pm

Kirk,

Thanks for the Babypips link, it looks like a great place to start? and class begins today.

I do not know what or where the Paltalk ?Two Percent Club? is, but I will find it.

Edward,

The Investopedia site looks great too. Thanks.

I really appreciate the thought-provoking questions you raised regarding my goals or lack-there-of. The websites and books recommended by Kirk and yourself should keep me busy for a while.

To give you an idea of where I stand right now I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

I just moved to Arizona, so, the amount of time and the time of day I have to trade/watch the markets will change, but right now, I have several hours a day.

The ?NEED? and desire amount questions are interesting, and will require more thought. My initial response is that I will begin with a $5,000.00 account and try to earn 10% a month.

While learning to program my computer does interest me? I believe my time would be better spent learning to trade. Trading is my ultimate goal, not programming.

What I want from the market is money. Money will give me the freedom to spend my time my way.

Thanks,

Mikeno

obx
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:35 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male

Postby obx » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:34 pm

1 On a individual basis, even good trading books are full of potentially misleading and harmful information to you. For example, the suggestions given by Eudaimonia are great books - but inculcating yourself with Goslin?s perspective could retard the development of your own ?way?.
At this point you are exploring other?s ways to find hints to finding your own way ? be careful!
Find out for sure, for yourself ? but I suggest you do it in real trading instead of through books. With Buyzone, you are now considering and seeing if you are a fit to a certain style of breakout trading. It?s free of ?Squigly lines? ( quoting tro) ? you may avoid learning a lot of crap OR in your particular case you may find your niche in indicators. Stay open and stay real! So?

2,3,4 open an fx account ( a real one not a play one) and actually trade the Buyzone technique for as many ?openings? per day as is feasible for you. Open a thread up here and post your real results, your trading journal, ask questions, and ask for help when you need it? again, this is to quickly get you to a knowing if this method is actually true to your own nature. If it is, ramp up. If not, move to the next one and find a suitable environment to go through the same process as described above.
Use one of the major / large fx houses. Ask tro, kk, or ____ which ones they recommend and why. Their data feeds are free

5,6 At this point, you don?t really have to have any special software / graphical computations to trade BuyZone

7 Even if you have a large amount of money to begin with I would suggest that you open a small fx account. Oanda may still have no minimums(didn?t last time I looked on their home page last spring) . Also check out MT ? Again, actually trade it (buyzone in this case) to really learn the ropes. ie spend 99% of your time getting real experience and 1 % on tools and playing with them. If it?s working on multiple levels for you then fund an fx account fully, move up to futures, open equity accounts, etc, and then explore one of the trading software packages.

hth

obx

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
eudamonia
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:50 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Rocklin, CA
Real name: Edward Heming
Gender: Male
Contact:

Postby eudamonia » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:05 pm

obx,

I agree that Mikeno would be picking up other methods when he is first learning. That is the point. He is going to get a lot of information on the internet/books/advice etc. and that is a good thing! Most of it will ultimately be useless to him (yep 95% of what's out there you will never use). But ignorant won't help him either.

By the way the BuyZone is a method too (a free method from Avery) and while I certainly make a good deal of money with it and so do other traders in this room it is by no means the ONLY way to trade. What if Mikeno is a genius programmer and statistician like Michal? Would he want to trade the same way as Avery or myself? Probably not.

Last point. What if Mikeno wants to trade stocks, or Urea options or whatever? What if he isn't sure what market(s) he wants to trade? Learning about what is out there is an important part of the process of becoming a mature trader.

Edward
Eudaimonia (pron.: you-die-moan-e-a) (Greek: εὐδαιμονία) is a classical Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness'. The less subjective "human flourishing" is often preferred as a translation.

obx
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:35 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male

Postby obx » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:25 pm

Ok Eud - you be right, I'll be wrong - not sure why you had to go there but...

Anyway - you advise him to spend his time garnering information and knowledge of diverse approaches from every corner of the trading earth...
I'll continue to advise him to learn to execute real time and deeply study one method at a time (buyzone in this case) mostly in terms of whether it is compatible with his nature

User avatar
TheRumpledOne
rank: 10000+ posts
rank: 10000+ posts
Posts: 11405
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Reputation: 45
Location: Oregon
Real name: Avery T. Horton, Jr.
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:43 pm

A martial arts student approached his teacher with a question. "I'd like to improve my knowledge of the martial arts. In addition to learning from you, I'd like to study with another teacher in order to learn another style. What do you think of this idea?"

"The hunter who chases two rabbits," answered the master, "catches neither one."
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

Lynx
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 3:27 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby Lynx » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:42 am

Love the quote!!!!

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “beginners forum”