A fresh start! Doji's Trading Journal

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Postby dojirock » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:19 am

Example chart
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"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO
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"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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Postby newscalper » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:39 am

Doji, hehe, sorry to be terse once again but why be SO cryptic if all you're talking about again is a retest? We all know it, we all see it. We've all shown charts showing it.
People would get results around here a lot quicker if there was a bit less of the mysticism.

And personally again and again I'm getting crushed trading it. Because it always boils down to which illusion you are trading.

What do I mean by which illusion? You guys are going on candle bodies and not price extremes. Extremes exist on all timeframe charts. Bodies do not.

Shall I repeat that: bodies do not.

Place your bias based on the 3 hour chart or some different brokers 4 hour chart and many times it will be totally different because the candles are not closing the same. What do you think 3xcc is about? It's not just about seeing momentum, it's to get around time-shifts because of different broker times. There is no magic line on the 4 hour chart where price turns on the 15 every time sorry guys. Have you never read 'Fooled by Randomness'?

If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun. If you're showing something else, please explain. Ta.

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Postby arkan1976 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:21 am

Hello Doji, thankyou very much for your explanation.
Would be correct this chart with your rules ?
1hour analysis.
Image
5min (entries)
Image

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Postby es/pip » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:00 pm

newscalper wrote:Doji, hehe, sorry to be terse once again but why be SO cryptic if all you're talking about again is a retest? We all know it, we all see it. We've all shown charts showing it.
People would get results around here a lot quicker if there was a bit less of the mysticism.

And personally again and again I'm getting crushed trading it. Because it always boils down to which illusion you are trading.

What do I mean by which illusion? You guys are going on candle bodies and not price extremes. Extremes exist on all timeframe charts. Bodies do not.

Shall I repeat that: bodies do not.

Place your bias based on the 3 hour chart or some different brokers 4 hour chart and many times it will be totally different because the candles are not closing the same. What do you think 3xcc is about? It's not just about seeing momentum, it's to get around time-shifts because of different broker times. There is no magic line on the 4 hour chart where price turns on the 15 every time sorry guys. Have you never read 'Fooled by Randomness'?

If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun. If you're showing something else, please explain. Ta.


I wouldn't say he is being cryptic, obviously he will come and post a response i am sure, but i just wanted to say this again.

At least from my experience, i firmly believe that it just is time on the charts that allows a person to feel it and see it all.

It is perception in a way i guess, maybe a little feel involved as well.

I look at the chart and i see what the other traders are doing, where they are in a position and where their stops are. I then either trade to zero them out or i wait and then take their stops and fade the move that takes their stops.

The big boys need liquidity in order to get their positions in the market. So they move the market to where there will be liquidity (zero line, s/d or stops).

This happens on all time frames, and you could just trade a m1 chart and look at nothing else; however, you would make a lot more trades and have a lot more losers.

SO

You trade a small time frame based on larger time frames. If you get a great looking m15 momo long trade but it is back into a large down h4 momo, then odds are not as good if say the other larger frames were also saying the same as your entry chart.

Having said all of that. At least for me, things change in an instant. i can be long biased but only end up trading short at times.

I really do not know how to explain it other than looking at the chart and really trying to feel the other traders and what they are doing. Find where they are positioned and where their stops are. Then find where other traders who are not in the market yet, and feel where they get in and get trapped and fade them.


Try and think like a market maker and you are executing huge order trades, and you do not want to move the market too much on your entry ( to an extent). The only way to do this is to trade where the liquidity is.

There is no 100% method, it may be out there but i do not have it, on Friday i made 45 trades and had 10-12 losers or BE ( across 3 diff markets).

That was more than usual, but i will trade what i see, and at times if i see a trade in 6e that i can get 5ish ticks i will take that all day long. On the es i will take trades that have a 3 tick target, other trades will have a 20-30 tick target. if the range becomes small i trade the traders in that small range, if the range expands i trade the traders in the larger range.

That may be a better way to say it, don't trade the chart, trade the other traders.

It is like MO has said before, poker and trading go hand in hand. When you play poker you are not always playing your cards, but you are playing the other people at the table based on their actions.

Same thing in trading.
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Postby bettlebox » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:39 pm

This is record of some my personal research i did on timing trades. It might help i dont know. Please dont have go at me if know this already. If helps someone great, if not nothing losed.

How i obtain a feel for market. I do exactly what ES-PIPS says i trade the higher time frame 4hr on lower timeframe 15mins. I broke it down into sections and examined over 100 trades for each part of cycles in pictures and begin to see same old stuff happening over and over again. Its boring yes but its either do some research or gain the knowledge via live trading.

There nothing new here its breakout - retracement thats it.

In pictures imagine that this is showing the 4hr cycle of breakout - retrace. OR 4hr momo (breakout) - Retracement and continutation.











BB
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Postby dojirock » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:34 pm

(silence)...hmmm...ugh...lol
I'm not trying to be cryptic. I'm going to quote MO here "Why do you guys make it so damn difficult" :roll: :roll:
I guess you can word it as a retest?, I didn't say anything about a retest. I disagree that we all know it, we all see it, we all show charts showing it, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. A retest could be a truth, but not the only truth.Not the only way to explain what I see either.
mysticism. Not my intent, sorry.
There is no illusion with this, your referring to something you haven't observed, not whats happening.
If you want to trade extremes, which I don't, and don't know even what they are for sure, that is what you have learned. Hey, i'm gonna type one of my new favorite quotes "Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking" I'm just using the bodies for this observation.
I'm sorry, they do for me. I see bodies on every chart? No?
It doesn't matter, take the time equation off it, you could hide the what time chart it is, it doesn't matter.
I agree, you may enter at x, I may enter at Y, but the direction is still correct. I do use wicks, extremes?, also but for entries...nothing else.

"If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun." I can think of at least 5 ways to explain this.

" If you're showing something else, please explain. Ta."[/quote
That is what im trying to do.. Please re read my last post to you.

I dont take this as an attack, and please dont take this as sarcasm im just trying to explain it.
Last edited by dojirock on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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Postby bettlebox » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:54 pm

I absolutely convinced that higher timeframe trading is way to go.
Its much easrier to sit on a trade for week and let it work while you manage it. Than to look for trades on daily basis.

Sounds like a good plan mate.

dojirock wrote:Applying trading method to 4 hr charts produce amazing results. I cant even imagine just taking 4 trades in a month. It yields over 600 pips. A goal for 2013 is to apply what I know to the 4 hr chart and with every fiber of my being muster up the patience to trade that time frame. The trade off in the number of pips has to be worth the imagined less stress trading the 4hr chart.
Hats off to all you longer time frame traders. I'm going to try it on a pair I don't normally trade so I can still trade my usual way on the 15 min.
I will post 4hr charts for accountability. (That always helps me stay on track).
There are two forces acting upon us: Suffering pushes us forward from behind and pleasures entice us and pull us forward.

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Postby dojirock » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:59 pm

arkan1976 wrote:Hello Doji, thankyou very much for your explanation.
Would be correct this chart with your rules ?
1hour analysis.
Image
5min (entries)
Image


aarkon,

You must get it, see it, because the entries you have would be valid...and on the way down there was no reason to go long until where you did......

Good Work.....
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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dojirock
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Postby dojirock » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:04 pm

es/pip wrote:
newscalper wrote:Doji, hehe, sorry to be terse once again but why be SO cryptic if all you're talking about again is a retest? We all know it, we all see it. We've all shown charts showing it.
People would get results around here a lot quicker if there was a bit less of the mysticism.

And personally again and again I'm getting crushed trading it. Because it always boils down to which illusion you are trading.

What do I mean by which illusion? You guys are going on candle bodies and not price extremes. Extremes exist on all timeframe charts. Bodies do not.

Shall I repeat that: bodies do not.

Place your bias based on the 3 hour chart or some different brokers 4 hour chart and many times it will be totally different because the candles are not closing the same. What do you think 3xcc is about? It's not just about seeing momentum, it's to get around time-shifts because of different broker times. There is no magic line on the 4 hour chart where price turns on the 15 every time sorry guys. Have you never read 'Fooled by Randomness'?

If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun. If you're showing something else, please explain. Ta.


I wouldn't say he is being cryptic, obviously he will come and post a response i am sure, but i just wanted to say this again.

At least from my experience, i firmly believe that it just is time on the charts that allows a person to feel it and see it all.

It is perception in a way i guess, maybe a little feel involved as well.

I look at the chart and i see what the other traders are doing, where they are in a position and where their stops are. I then either trade to zero them out or i wait and then take their stops and fade the move that takes their stops.

The big boys need liquidity in order to get their positions in the market. So they move the market to where there will be liquidity (zero line, s/d or stops).

This happens on all time frames, and you could just trade a m1 chart and look at nothing else; however, you would make a lot more trades and have a lot more losers.

SO

You trade a small time frame based on larger time frames. If you get a great looking m15 momo long trade but it is back into a large down h4 momo, then odds are not as good if say the other larger frames were also saying the same as your entry chart.

Having said all of that. At least for me, things change in an instant. i can be long biased but only end up trading short at times.

I really do not know how to explain it other than looking at the chart and really trying to feel the other traders and what they are doing. Find where they are positioned and where their stops are. Then find where other traders who are not in the market yet, and feel where they get in and get trapped and fade them.


Try and think like a market maker and you are executing huge order trades, and you do not want to move the market too much on your entry ( to an extent). The only way to do this is to trade where the liquidity is.

There is no 100% method, it may be out there but i do not have it, on Friday i made 45 trades and had 10-12 losers or BE ( across 3 diff markets).

That was more than usual, but i will trade what i see, and at times if i see a trade in 6e that i can get 5ish ticks i will take that all day long. On the es i will take trades that have a 3 tick target, other trades will have a 20-30 tick target. if the range becomes small i trade the traders in that small range, if the range expands i trade the traders in the larger range.

That may be a better way to say it, don't trade the chart, trade the other traders.

It is like MO has said before, poker and trading go hand in hand. When you play poker you are not always playing your cards, but you are playing the other people at the table based on their actions.

Same thing in trading.


Thanks for the input es/pip..... true very true, it fits the model, and again another way of saying what we look for and see.

:D
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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Postby bettlebox » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:06 pm

Doji mate can you umm summarize what it was you trying to show us, the core of the topic has become abit blurred with exchange on forum.

BB


dojirock wrote:Doji, hehe, sorry to be terse once again but why be SO cryptic if all you're talking about again is a retest? We all know it, we all see it. We've all shown charts showing it.
People would get results around here a lot quicker if there was a bit less of the mysticism.
And personally again and again I'm getting crushed trading it. Because it always boils down to which illusion you are trading.
What do I mean by which illusion? You guys are going on candle bodies and not price extremes. Extremes exist on all time frame charts. Bodies do not.
Shall I repeat that: bodies do not.
Place your bias based on the 3 hour chart or some different brokers 4 hour chart and many times it will be totally different because the candles are not closing the same.
What do you think 3xcc is about? It's not just about seeing momentum, it's to get around time-shifts because of different broker times. There is no magic line on the 4 hour chart where price turns on the 15 every time sorry guys. Have you never read 'Fooled by Randomness'?
If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun. I can think of at least 5 ways to explain this.

(silence)...hmmm...ugh...lol
I'm not trying to be cryptic. I'm going to quote MO here "Why do you guys make it so damn difficult" :roll: :roll:
I guess you can word it as a retest?, I didn't say anything about a retest. I disagree that we all know it, we all see it, we all show charts showing it, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. A retest could be a truth, but not the only truth.Not the only way to explain what I see either.
mysticism. Not my intent, sorry.
There is no illusion with this, your referring to something you haven't observed, not whats happening.
If you want to trade extremes, which I don't, and don't know even what they are for sure, that is what you have learned. Hey, i'm gonna type one of my new favorite quotes "Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking" I'm just using the bodies for this observation.
I'm sorry, they do for me. I see bodies on every chart? No?
It doesn't matter, take the time equation off it, you could hide the what time chart it is, it doesn't matter.
I agree, you may enter at x, I may enter at Y, but the direction is still correct. I do use wicks, extremes?, also but for entries...nothing else.

"If all you're showing is higher highs higher lows etc, nothing new under the sun." I can think of at least 5 ways to explain this.

" If you're showing something else, please explain. Ta."[/quote
That is what im trying to do.. Please re read my last post to you.

I dont take this as an attack, and please dont take this as sarcasm im just trying to explain it.
There are two forces acting upon us: Suffering pushes us forward from behind and pleasures entice us and pull us forward.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


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