ProchargedMopar's Trading Trilogy

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prochargedmopar
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Postby prochargedmopar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:03 pm

Time stamp, coining new phrase like I did with the Mightyzone.
Its OPM$ Or OP$ for short.
Other Peoples Money!
Add this to your balance sheet, its an intregal part. lol
I'll post why 95% of traders lose later today. I wrote a short diatribe. :)
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby newscalper » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 pm

bredin wrote:D+...
y'know small charts ;)


newscalper,
Space is both sword and shield.
ok
I think youre having trouble seeing both aspects.
maybe
The fist job of Space is to protect your *capital*
yes
The second is to use 'other peoples money' (ie profit) to grow your capital.
Risk is only assessed on capital
It's not OPM, once it's there in your account it's your money and therefore also your capital, your capital has increased

This is a leveraged environment, like the property market. Lets take an example from property...
ok
I use 10k to buy a house worth 100k. it appreciates to 120k. so I have (held) profit of 20k, right?
ok
If the price of the house falls to 110k, have I taken a loss?
yes: I understand the mind trick but you still have a drawdown of 10k however you look at it, all you are doing is saying the money is not yours until you sell the house, the money IS yours and you just lost 10K, you had 30K, now you only have 20K. I'm going to write this very quick so the maths may go wrong..Also you have to consider the downside which is this: You buy your house for 100K with 10K, leveraging at 10:1, it appreciates in value by 10K and you sell. You now have enough to leverage for 2 100K houses. You buy and do the same. Then on to 3 houses. Only this time they do not go up in value, they fall in value by 15K. Now what do you do? Even if you manage to sell before going into negative equity, say at 10K loss (that's your I/T) you are right back at 0, you then buy 1 house and again it falls 10K, what do you then do? To say you have not lost anything apart from on the last transaction is purely an accounting trick by saying the money was not yours in the first place. I argue that it was/ Also, unless you're pretty damn careful/lucky when things DO go belly up with that much leverage they will unwind mighty fast, isn't that what's just happened in the world?

The foundation of space is the separation of account into two parts.
yes, I understand that
One part generates your available leverage, the other is the amount you are willing to risk. Almost all traders see no difference in the two functions, money at risk is also used for leverage...
yes, do you agree that both accounts actually contain YOUR money, and what do you do, after a series of losses when you no longer have enough 'space' to continue without taking money from your leverage account and adding it to your space account? What's the difference?

and money used for leverage is also at risk.
given my example above, it always is, it's no different to blowing out your account and having to refund it from somewhere else

They try to 'fix' this by trading below their accounts maximum leverage. After all, at 100:1 leverage your account is gone in 100 pips... so they create space for themselves by lowering their lotsize, and limit the amount of this expanded space they are willing to risk in one hit (ie stoploss).

This system is flawed, since after the initial deposit all capital is at risk, sliced into thin parts, and discarded piecemeal.
How I see it, it still is

With space we take the held profit (ie other peoples money It's your moneys) and put that at risk, and our capital is used to leverage the position.

If our account value falls, just like in the property example, it does not matter I think you may feel differently next time you take a large hit? since space has done its job in protecting our capital.

Now if you had the property mentioned above, would you wait for the yearly candle to close before you sold it if your I/T was at 115k?
Now that's an interesting one, if you're saying if price hits 115k I sell then that's no different to a stop loss, price hits the line and you sell (albeit you can't sell a property just like that), I thought the whole point of an I/T was that unless some kind of bar actually CLOSED over it you kept the trade open therefore avoiding being spiked out and if your criteria is a you wait for a yearly period then yes you wait for the yearly bar to close? :cry: confused



G.

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Postby MightyOne » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:25 pm

I am so tired of the your money their money argument...

Space is like buying into a poker tournament; at any given time you could have positive equity in the prize but the tournament is not over until you win or lose the last chip.

You could say, because you paid $10,000 to enter and recieved 10,000 in chips, that each chip (see pip) is worth $1 but you are only mind fking yourself if you think that way.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:08 pm

MightyOne wrote:I am so tired of the your money their money argument...

Space is like buying into a poker tournament; at any given time you could have positive equity in the prize but the tournament is not over until you win or lose the last chip.

You could say, because you paid $10,000 to enter and recieved 10,000 in chips, that each chip (see pip) is worth $1 but you are only mind fking yourself if you think that way.


If the Annie is $1 and you have $10 in your pocket when you sit down at the table to play,

You are risking what you have to risk until the dealing is done.

newscalper, sing with me please................
You NEVER count your money, when your sittin' at the table, there'l be time enough for countin, when the dealings done> The Gambler

You are risking what you are risking, NOTHING more, NOTHING less.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby aussiefx » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:35 am

I am intrigued by this space you all speak of, but I don't know what it is about this forum but it seems after a while everyone starts speaking in cryptic sentences that I'm sure make sense to some but not this simple mind. Would it be possible to actually get a sensible / intelligible explanation of the concept assuming one has no background on what the heck you're talking about? Are you talking about entering a trade and adding "lots" as it goes your way? Or something to that affect?

And before anyone says "Have you searched / read the forums". I politely say yes - that is the first thing I do but as I stated above the threads here often take strange and mystical paths which just end up doing my head in! I am here to learn and do pick up the odd pearl from the many masters here but they're hard to decipher at the best of times.

Any help / sharing of wisdom is greatly appreciated and adds to your positive karma balance :)

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Postby Humble » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:46 am

Is price closing higher or lower than something? Simple yet powerful question. ..MO

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Postby aussiefx » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:48 am

You sir are a legend, and a fellow Aussie to boot! Thankyou.

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Postby Humble » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:52 am

Nice to have someone in the same timezone. I usually post a question and then come back the next day to what response was posted in the night. By then the conversation has gone cold.
Is price closing higher or lower than something? Simple yet powerful question. ..MO

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Postby aussiefx » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:03 am

Yep, I know that feeling. Looks like I've got some reading over there now (notice some of it still seems to be a work in progress) but at least it helps get an idea what everyone's talking about.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:25 am

Are you a "scalper"?
Do you use small stops?
Is your account equity in limbo or on the decline?

Do you know Why 95% of Traders Lose??

Some have said "Over Trading". What a load of B.S.
Just like being fat is a sign of hormonal derangement and a saving grace,(be happy your fat, it's saving your life) NOT the cause of the disease.
So too is overtrading a bi-product of your internal imbalance, NOT a causality.

Lets get to the REAL answer.

First, a side note. We are born into societies that have us follow rules and we conform to our higher powers daily. We are conditioned by very simple things from work, governments and schools. And we follow like sheep.

In trading; the banks, brokers, and market makers have established "rules" that are heavily skewed in their favor. Oh yeah, They act as though, and would like you to think, they have your best interest in mind. That's exactly how they want you to feel, that they are here to "help".
Don't be the fool.

Have you heard these sayings?
Don't risk more than 1-2%, Do not over trade, stack the odd's in your favor with X system, be disciplined (no such thing as discipline but that's for another day), always trade with 2:1 or better R:R, take profits while they are available, and let your winners run.

Sounds good eh? They really care about your well being. :roll:
DUDE, They are pounding sand up your Hooohaaa!!!

The truth is that all humans act exactly the same way when under stress. It's an archaic survival mechanism. Using those teachings as your guidelines to trade invokes the fight/flight mechanism.
They know with all this information being taught as the default........
YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE SLOWLY(AND SOMETIMES QUICKLY) BLED DRY!!
The brokers and bankers maintain their casino status while your left to be the gambling addict.

Oh you say? But my system wins 85-90% so the odd's are in my favor not theirs> The very reason ALL noobs are continually searching for some new indicator or GRAIL setup. Muuuuaaahhhhaaahhhhaaaahhhaaa. SUCKER!

Anyone who uses a 9, 15, or 20 pip stop will never even trade 1:1 consistently. Your 90% win rate is in the crapper already. Check your account balance again to see if your one of the 95% LOSERS.
I'm sure you don't even have to look, you can feel it in your gut.

If your thinking about X pips per day, Win %, not over trading, using discipline, getting money back after a loss, making millions in X amount of time, ect. ect. Your a LOSER!!!!
The psychological reason your stop is so small and your thinking about these very things will never allow you to hit your tp consistently.

Oh, but, but, I can get 2:1 with a 8 pip stop and 16 pip tp easily. Go piss up a rope fella, it will never happen. Your lying to yourself and you can't trick a tricker.

Hey, hold on, I'll take some off and then let some run..........NO you won't.
Your up 7 and price stall's so you take 50% out (minimizing your winners again like the banks know you will). Then price goes +11 and all is good, before you know it your closing out with +4 on the 2nd 50% because you don't want to LOSE AGAIN. This is just before price shoots up to where you "would have", "could have" been +35.

Because of the lost opportunity when you knew you were right in the first place your next trade is taken on emotion and it runs straight to your stop FULLY loaded.
I do not have to do the math for you, all you have to do is look at your account balance......OUCH.

Losers will always trade on emotion and are emotionally connected to every penny, and I mean EVERY FRIGGIN penny in their account!!!
The banks/brokers know this. Do YOU? Yes, because you have the account balance staring at you in your trading platform.
AND IT'S NOT NEARING YOUR FIRST $$MILLION!!!$$

NO system, NO Method, NO "trading plan", NO amount of claimed future discipline, NO RULES, NO technical charting prowess, NO indicators, NO signal service, NO................ Will Ever, ever FIX YOU.

Just remember, the RULES of this business are STACKED against YOU!!!!

In a couple days I'll show you how to make all the money you could "need" with your very own DREAM setup.
Making 2:1, 3:1, or maybe even 5:1 on the $$ your willing to RISK
using A 10 pip stop and 5 pip take profit.

For those who are a little Less Greedy and Fearful (psychologically healthier) we can also show how to do it
trading with a 10/10, 15/15, or 20/20 ratio stop to take profit.
Your choice.

RETRAIN YOUR BRAIN
:smt096
Last edited by prochargedmopar on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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