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TygerKrane
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Postby TygerKrane » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Have you looked at binary options as well?

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Postby aliassmith » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:23 pm

TygerKrane wrote:Have you looked at binary options as well?


I looked at them and I don't like'em. I prefer the vanilla options on futures.
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Postby TygerKrane » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:53 pm

Not trying to be too invasive, but how do you manage to turn yourself away from the allure of 65-80% profit in 5-60mins??

I only ask b/c every 3 months or so, it hits me like a gambling fever, I get beads of sweat on my forehead and I get a twitch underneath one of my eyes, and I find myself thinking, & thinking, & thinking...

I have two binary accounts, three if you include Bet On Markets.


^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess for me it's like 1 lot AU = $24
75%= $18

so I need 180pips Forex trading vs. 1pip Binary Options to get that.

Of course, I lose 90% if I am -1pip Binary :roll:


or for 1 lot EU = $32
75%= $24

so that's 240pips Forex vs. 1pip Binary :(

**Krane catches Tyger** !>I'm here to chew bubble gum and make major pips...and I'm all out of bubble gum.<!

aliassmith
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Postby aliassmith » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:18 pm

TygerKrane wrote:Not trying to be too invasive, but how do you manage to turn yourself away from the allure of 65-80% profit in 5-60mins??

I only ask b/c every 3 months or so, it hits me like a gambling fever, I get beads of sweat on my forehead and I get a twitch underneath one of my eyes, and I find myself thinking, & thinking, & thinking...

I have two binary accounts, three if you include Bet On Markets.


^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess for me it's like 1 lot AU = $24
75%= $18

so I need 180pips Forex trading vs. 1pip Binary Options to get that.

Of course, I lose 90% if I am -1pip Binary :roll:


or for 1 lot EU = $32
75%= $24

so that's 240pips Forex vs. 1pip Binary :(


65% to 80% profits in 5 to 60 minutes?
Hmm, let me look in my chart archive.
So, the first chart I came too, if I risked $100 = 10 pips
The reward would be $450 = 45 pips
so my return on investment is 450%
and my return on equity would be 4.5% or more, depending on my risk
gearing stage.
I believe that was 1 or 2 candles on a 15 minute chart.
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TygerKrane
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Postby TygerKrane » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:32 pm

aliassmith wrote:
TygerKrane wrote:Not trying to be too invasive, but how do you manage to turn yourself away from the allure of 65-80% profit in 5-60mins??

I only ask b/c every 3 months or so, it hits me like a gambling fever, I get beads of sweat on my forehead and I get a twitch underneath one of my eyes, and I find myself thinking, & thinking, & thinking...

I have two binary accounts, three if you include Bet On Markets.


^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess for me it's like 1 lot AU = $24
75%= $18

so I need 180pips Forex trading vs. 1pip Binary Options to get that.

Of course, I lose 90% if I am -1pip Binary :roll:


or for 1 lot EU = $32
75%= $24

so that's 240pips Forex vs. 1pip Binary :(


65% to 80% profits in 5 to 60 minutes?
Hmm, let me look in my chart archive.
So, the first chart I came too, if I risked $100 = 10 pips
The reward would be $450 = 45 pips
so my return on investment is 450%
and my return on equity would be 4.5% or more, depending on my risk
gearing stage.
I believe that was 1 or 2 candles on a 15 minute chart.

Ok, I see we're doing the math from different perspectives.
Your math is based on how much money you earned in comparison to how much you were willing to Risk to take the trade, so yes, risking $100 to undertake a trade and getting $450 from it is your 450%.

My math is based on how much Margin I had to lay out to get into the trade, regardless of how large or small my SL was.
So for, say, EU, $3200 margin would get me $10/pip, therefore the $100 per 10pips.
If I then made $450 on the trade, then I made ~14% on that $3200 that I laid out.

**If we both had a $10,000 account (which goes with your 'Return on Equity' calculation), then overall, yes, we both did just increase our equity the same 4.5%.**

I took my viewpoint b/c if I have a $10,000 binary account and I lay out $3200 on a 75% Binary Option; if I am 1pip in-the-money I get $2400.

So whereas the spot Forex is laying out $3200 and getting $450 after 45pips, {The Return on Equity being 4.5%}
The Binary is laying out $3200 and getting $2400 after 1pip. {The Return on Equity being 24%}

~~~~~~~~~
I think it would be said that your percentage is based on Risk:Reward, whereas my percentage is based on Return-on-Investment (ROI). 8)

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aliassmith
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Postby aliassmith » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:04 pm

TygerKrane wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
TygerKrane wrote:Not trying to be too invasive, but how do you manage to turn yourself away from the allure of 65-80% profit in 5-60mins??

I only ask b/c every 3 months or so, it hits me like a gambling fever, I get beads of sweat on my forehead and I get a twitch underneath one of my eyes, and I find myself thinking, & thinking, & thinking...

I have two binary accounts, three if you include Bet On Markets.


^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess for me it's like 1 lot AU = $24
75%= $18

so I need 180pips Forex trading vs. 1pip Binary Options to get that.

Of course, I lose 90% if I am -1pip Binary :roll:


or for 1 lot EU = $32
75%= $24

so that's 240pips Forex vs. 1pip Binary :(


65% to 80% profits in 5 to 60 minutes?
Hmm, let me look in my chart archive.
So, the first chart I came too, if I risked $100 = 10 pips
The reward would be $450 = 45 pips
so my return on investment is 450%
and my return on equity would be 4.5% or more, depending on my risk
gearing stage.
I believe that was 1 or 2 candles on a 15 minute chart.

Ok, I see we're doing the math from different perspectives.
Your math is based on how much money you earned in comparison to how much you were willing to Risk to take the trade, so yes, risking $100 to undertake a trade and getting $450 from it is your 450%.

My math is based on how much Margin I had to lay out to get into the trade, regardless of how large or small my SL was.
So for, say, EU, $3200 margin would get me $10/pip, therefore the $100 per 10pips.
If I then made $450 on the trade, then I made ~14% on that $3200 that I laid out.

**If we both had a $10,000 account (which goes with your 'Return on Equity' calculation), then overall, yes, we both did just increase our equity the same 4.5%.**

I took my viewpoint b/c if I have a $10,000 binary account and I lay out $3200 on a 75% Binary Option; if I am 1pip in-the-money I get $2400.

So whereas the spot Forex is laying out $3200 and getting $450 after 45pips, {The Return on Equity being 4.5%}
The Binary is laying out $3200 and getting $2400 after 1pip. {The Return on Equity being 24%}

~~~~~~~~~
I think it would be said that your percentage is based on Risk:Reward, whereas my percentage is based on Return-on-Investment (ROI). 8)


So your calculations of "return" are based on margin layout?
Regardless, if you layout $3200 of your $10,000 and you lose, do you lose
your $3200?
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Shinobi-X
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Postby Shinobi-X » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:12 am

^^ i second that :)

binary option vs plain vanilla option?

plain vanilla option win hands down anytime IMHO.

both plain vanilla options and forex trading have the same advantage over binary option and that is the ability to get more than 1:1 RR (yes, RR is the ultimate base calculation for me :) and probably for many traders too). i want to be able to get more than what i risk and this is one of MO's strongest teaching and one of the most profitable business advises IMO. think about this...even a 1:1 RR in forex beats binary options' 95% not to mention a trade that can bring far beyond a mere 1:1 RR. moreover, you can adjust your SL (reducing risk) and this is something you can't do in options (both binary and plain vanilla). the only big advantage that plain vanilla options have over forex is the SL is based on premium and time (with time playing the bigger part).
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aliassmith
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Postby aliassmith » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:00 pm

Shinobi-X wrote:^^ i second that :)

binary option vs plain vanilla option?

plain vanilla option win hands down anytime IMHO.

both plain vanilla options and forex trading have the same advantage over binary option and that is the ability to get more than 1:1 RR (yes, RR is the ultimate base calculation for me :) and probably for many traders too). i want to be able to get more than what i risk and this is one of MO's expiration. At expiration you will lose all your margin if you are out of the
moneystrongest teaching and one of the most profitable business advises IMO. think about this...even a 1:1 RR in forex beats binary options' 95% not to mention a trade that can bring far beyond a mere 1:1 RR. moreover, you can adjust your SL (reducing risk) and this is something you can't do in options (both binary and plain vanilla). the only big advantage that plain vanilla options have over forex is the SL is based on premium and time (with time playing the bigger part).


I brushed up on my binary options info. They do have potential to make
more than 1:1 RR. You can buy/sell them for $20 and make $100. You will
lose all your margin at expiration if you are not in the money. You
do have the ability to liquidate your postion eary. I am sure viable strategies
can be formulated with them.

It looks like margin layout is actually the same as max risk of the position.
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Postby adaseb » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:27 am

I have an old stock/options account back when I used to trade equities and i've been trying out options on stock indicies such as dow jones, sp500, and nasdaq on a higher timeframe.


Basically the tough part about options is you need to not only predict the right price to enter, you also have to predict the right time, same goes for exits.

But you get a very good R:R everytime. Why?

Because when you buy out of money options they usually have a delta much below 1. So if you think its the right time to enter place a bid on a far out of money option, and if it doesn't look like the trade will work, you can pretty much sell it for almost the same price you bought it for. This is not counting the spread and commissions. Because of the small delta.

Now if the trade works the delta will keep increasing and eventually if you bought the correct strike price it will eventually be in the money and your P/L will increase exponentially.

So pretty much all your trades would be very little risk and very high reward. Thats the pro about options, the cons are the time decay, which tears most retail traders to shreds.

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Postby MightyOne » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:41 pm

I buy options with 4-5 months on them & estimate my loss, should price fall to x, by pricing nearby options.

The very first thing that you do is track an options price from day to day or use an option value indicator.

I prefer going long "just out of the money" options and converting to outrights when I obtian a profit cushion.

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