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es/pip
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:00 pm

flossnhoss wrote:I'm sure some of you caught this today, but I missed it waiting for an 'entry' point.

This was a great 'setup' coming back down into a GU 1HR zone, and showed a M5 double bottom reversal into a up momentum.

I was left waiting for a retrace back in to the 5 minute zone that never happened... poor discretion on my part I suppose :?

What would you all (es/pip and others) have done in this situation? Sit it out, or jump in at some point to go long.

Thanks for any pointers.


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i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive

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cfabian
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby cfabian » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:06 pm

Let me give you my take on this as a learner....

I was sitting right next to you waiting for that retrace, which you mentioned didn't happen. Well, for me at this stage prefer to pass on a trade that doesn't spot a clear entry, than playing to be an experienced trader. Yes we would have been profitable if jumped in..... But just remember the times when used to do that, at the very next second the retrace came and bit my ass.

So, I prefer to stay out and enter only on safer ones.

Let's see what the pros answer to this.



flossnhoss wrote:I'm sure some of you caught this today, but I missed it waiting for an 'entry' point.

This was a great 'setup' coming back down into a GU 1HR zone, and showed a M5 double bottom reversal into a up momentum.

I was left waiting for a retrace back in to the 5 minute zone that never happened... poor discretion on my part I suppose :?

What would you all (es/pip and others) have done in this situation? Sit it out, or jump in at some point to go long.

Thanks for any pointers.


Image
WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!
"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"

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Postby spa » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:08 pm

es/pip wrote:
es/pip wrote:
spa wrote:one thing and so far the only tangible one i've learned from this thread is to cut the losses..
traded a short on eurusd (entry marked at 1.4632) .. price moved higher to the 1.4640 15 min ZL after forming the exact same pattern es/pip mentioned on friday(LL-bounce-LL-HH-HL)
i waited for the PA to show increased down momentum on the 15 and 5 min chart and got on board... small loss -5 pips



i hope that is not all you learned :roll:

i dont see anything wrong with taking that trade( it ws back into an h4 mz for a short)--- you did what you were supposed to do ---out with a small loss

you point out one trade that you took that didn't work what about all the other ones

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ZL MZ's are lines and areas that provide one with a good idea of "areas" that price may find s/r with a small drawdown

the key to the whole thing is cutting losses short or at be and having larger winners

the zl/MZ cuts the odds in your favor-------- you are not going to go short back into a long zl--- so you know you are only trading long if it doesn't work you get out with a small loss if it does then you make a large gain

:wink:


think i got that ..trying to put it to work
excellent charts above, liked how you showed the movement from the higher tf's to the 5 min...

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Re: runaway trade?

Postby flossnhoss » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:41 pm

es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!

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es/pip
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:03 pm

flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Re: runaway trade?

Postby flossnhoss » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:30 am

es/pip wrote:there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Yes, I agree.

In this case (in my opinion) there was a zone established on the H1 timeframe, with non-consecutive bars. So, I was looking to trade away from the H1 zone, and looking inside on the 5 minute timeframe for an entry (smaller zone and retrace).

While this is a mechanical setup, it has shown to work well. But I get hung up when price just moves away with no retrace on the smaller time frame, so I'm still wondering... how would/could this be traded.

I know a lot of people come across this situation, so I'm just wondering how you all handle it.

An example would be to just enter after price has broken past the last 3 bars, or something.

Thanks for any input!

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Re: runaway trade?

Postby gutek04 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:08 am

es/pip wrote:
flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.

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es/pip
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:45 am

flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Yes, I agree.

In this case (in my opinion) there was a zone established on the H1 timeframe, with non-consecutive bars. So, I was looking to trade away from the H1 zone, and looking inside on the 5 minute timeframe for an entry (smaller zone and retrace).

While this is a mechanical setup, it has shown to work well. But I get hung up when price just moves away with no retrace on the smaller time frame, so I'm still wondering... how would/could this be traded.

I know a lot of people come across this situation, so I'm just wondering how you all handle it.

An example would be to just enter after price has broken past the last 3 bars, or something.

Thanks for any input!



it is not a mechanical setup

it is just what it is------a line or a zone that represents other traders point of action

you have to trade it discretionary, that's why sometimes you just have to get it----and sometimes you will just miss some trades


dont treat it as a setup or a signal
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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no differences

Postby flossnhoss » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:47 am

gutek04 wrote:
Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.


gutek04,

My understanding is that there isn't a difference in the line or zone themselves, but rather the approach to the way that you would trade them.

The only difference being, as es/pip said, is whether they occur on consecutive bars or not. Consecutive bars (1-2 'body in direction of profit, wick in the direction of loss') is the traditional way a zone is created and traded, and the second is when the wick, or retrace, occurs some bars away from the momentum bar towards profit/trade direction.

Hope that helps.

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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:50 am

gutek04 wrote:
es/pip wrote:
flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.


huh?

consecutive bars is a zline trade

not consecutive bars is a trade away from it like s/r
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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