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flossnhoss
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby flossnhoss » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:41 pm

es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!

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es/pip
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:03 pm

flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

flossnhoss
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby flossnhoss » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:30 am

es/pip wrote:there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Yes, I agree.

In this case (in my opinion) there was a zone established on the H1 timeframe, with non-consecutive bars. So, I was looking to trade away from the H1 zone, and looking inside on the 5 minute timeframe for an entry (smaller zone and retrace).

While this is a mechanical setup, it has shown to work well. But I get hung up when price just moves away with no retrace on the smaller time frame, so I'm still wondering... how would/could this be traded.

I know a lot of people come across this situation, so I'm just wondering how you all handle it.

An example would be to just enter after price has broken past the last 3 bars, or something.

Thanks for any input!

gutek04
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby gutek04 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:08 am

es/pip wrote:
flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.

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es/pip
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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:45 am

flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Yes, I agree.

In this case (in my opinion) there was a zone established on the H1 timeframe, with non-consecutive bars. So, I was looking to trade away from the H1 zone, and looking inside on the 5 minute timeframe for an entry (smaller zone and retrace).

While this is a mechanical setup, it has shown to work well. But I get hung up when price just moves away with no retrace on the smaller time frame, so I'm still wondering... how would/could this be traded.

I know a lot of people come across this situation, so I'm just wondering how you all handle it.

An example would be to just enter after price has broken past the last 3 bars, or something.

Thanks for any input!



it is not a mechanical setup

it is just what it is------a line or a zone that represents other traders point of action

you have to trade it discretionary, that's why sometimes you just have to get it----and sometimes you will just miss some trades


dont treat it as a setup or a signal
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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flossnhoss
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no differences

Postby flossnhoss » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:47 am

gutek04 wrote:
Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.


gutek04,

My understanding is that there isn't a difference in the line or zone themselves, but rather the approach to the way that you would trade them.

The only difference being, as es/pip said, is whether they occur on consecutive bars or not. Consecutive bars (1-2 'body in direction of profit, wick in the direction of loss') is the traditional way a zone is created and traded, and the second is when the wick, or retrace, occurs some bars away from the momentum bar towards profit/trade direction.

Hope that helps.

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Re: runaway trade?

Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:50 am

gutek04 wrote:
es/pip wrote:
flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:
i felt pretty strong about that trade based on the h4, daily dbl bottom and right back into h1 zl

i missed it at the bottom and flipped to a m1 and got in it

i will do that sometimes when i miss the bottom and it doesn't pull back----- and i feel really good about it

i am also up a decent amount of pips so i get more aggressive



Okay, thanks for the input. I def see how you took the smaller retrace on 1M level, fair enough.

Just to expand on it... would there ever be a case where you just trade _with_ momentum? I believe that was mentioned early in the thread, and I think I even recall seeing some posts/charts illustrating this, but when you are looking for an entry, I often find trading in the direction of momentum difficult. Silly me.

I always get stuck in the mindset of waiting for a better entry (i.e. some retrace) and before I know it, price has pulled away 30 pips or more.

I know you won't catch them all, but just wondering if there are any techniques used to just 'hop on in'.

Perhaps I'm just over thinking.

Thanks!



there are two different things that we are talking about

1. zl/mz that happens on consecutive bars

this would be with momentum

2. zl/mz not on consecutive bars

may or may not be with momentum
it doesn't matter bec you treat it like s/r and trade away from it


Well I still dont get it, I didnt know that there could be a difference between two ZL's, maybe this is the missing point in my trading. I'll better start reading MightyOne and rest ZL'ers poststs again. I would be gratefull if someone would explain me those differences.


huh?

consecutive bars is a zline trade

not consecutive bars is a trade away from it like s/r
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:28 pm

please tell me someone got some of that

Image
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

flossnhoss
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Postby flossnhoss » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:40 pm

es/pip wrote:please tell me someone got some of that


I tried a couple but was unsuccessful. Could you show on your smaller time frame how you took any trades?

Also, my broker H4 charts are different, so I didn't get the same lines.

Thanks

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Postby es/pip » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:37 pm

flossnhoss wrote:
es/pip wrote:please tell me someone got some of that


I tried a couple but was unsuccessful. Could you show on your smaller time frame how you took any trades?

Also, my broker H4 charts are different, so I didn't get the same lines.

Thanks



some were on the 5 min some i averaged into some (in my favor)

i had a good amount of b/e trades a couple small losers

too much to go back and try and label through all of that pa

later on if i get a chance i may

but that is what i am saying---- it is discretionary so it is different every time
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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