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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:15 am

es/pip wrote:
MightyOne wrote:Ok, it took me almost 2 hours to create this picture :roll:

I usually do not draw full Diamonds of perception because they take so fergin long to draw and moving them is even worse!

Feel free to code it ;)

If you can have it delete the background boxes after the diamond is drawn then that would be spectacular.

The lime green angles in the picture are sharps and the dark green angles are flats.

DIAMOND OF PERCEPTION 202
Learning the angles of perception


Image


looking at that my eyes went :shock:

too tired to even attempt to look at it

i did see 1 thing in it already

at least i know what i am doing this weekend now :D


Is this better ;)


Image

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:18 am

Thanks, MO.

I wonder how the method could be put into practical use.

I can see how the pip value of angles is calcuated. However, how do we know the future angle value when the trend changes? The angle is usually confirmed later when the trend materialise and at that moment a number of bars has been passed.

I also notice you draw the upper left corner of the box at the 1st retracement of the trend. Is it correct?

Thanks.

Lis
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:42 am

monolisa wrote:Thanks, MO.

I wonder how the method could be put into practical use.

I can see how the pip value of angles is calcuated. However, how do we know the future angle value when the trend changes? The angle is usually confirmed later when the trend materialise and at that moment a number of bars has been passed.

I also notice you draw the upper left corner of the box at the 1st retracement of the trend. Is it correct?

Thanks.

Lis


The only thing that matters is that the angle connects the points of the box....
it really does not matter where you start drawing the box as you only wish to define the degrees so that the angles can be used on any scale.

The exact angles do not matter :lol: the proportions do.

There is a margin of error of 5* when drawing Major angles; these "errors" are known as sharp and flat angles.

35 & 25 degrees is considered to be a 30 degree angle.

You do not have to wait for a "trend" before the angles of ascent and decline are known.
The charts follow very predictable patterns which, when recognized, cause your risk to combust :P

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:05 am

MO,

I hope you can help me understand.

In order to draw a box you need 2 key points which are diagonal to each other (eg. upper left and lower right). I am happy with the notion that the starting point is determined by personal preference, but without know the "future" (ie the lower right or the upper right point) it's not possible to draw a box.

Also are you able to elaborate on "used on any scale"? Is it related to timeframe?

So the major angles are more important than sharp/flat variants?

Thanks.

Lis

MightyOne wrote:
monolisa wrote:Thanks, MO.

I wonder how the method could be put into practical use.

I can see how the pip value of angles is calcuated. However, how do we know the future angle value when the trend changes? The angle is usually confirmed later when the trend materialise and at that moment a number of bars has been passed.

I also notice you draw the upper left corner of the box at the 1st retracement of the trend. Is it correct?

Thanks.

Lis


The only thing that matters is that the angle connects the points of the box....
it really does not matter where you start drawing the box as you only wish to define the degrees so that the angles can be used on any scale.

The exact angles do not matter :lol: the proportions do.

There is a margin of error of 5* when drawing Major angles; these "errors" are known as sharp and flat angles.

35 & 25 degrees is considered to be a 30 degree angle.

You do not have to wait for a "trend" before the angles of ascent and decline are known.
The charts follow very predictable patterns which, when recognized, cause your risk to combust :P
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:01 pm

monolisa wrote:MO,

I hope you can help me understand.

In order to draw a box you need 2 key points which are diagonal to each other (eg. upper left and lower right). I am happy with the notion that the starting point is determined by personal preference, but without know the "future" (ie the lower right or the upper right point) it's not possible to draw a box.

Also are you able to elaborate on "used on any scale"? Is it related to timeframe?

So the major angles are more important than sharp/flat variants?

Thanks.

Lis

MightyOne wrote:
monolisa wrote:Thanks, MO.

I wonder how the method could be put into practical use.

I can see how the pip value of angles is calcuated. However, how do we know the future angle value when the trend changes? The angle is usually confirmed later when the trend materialise and at that moment a number of bars has been passed.

I also notice you draw the upper left corner of the box at the 1st retracement of the trend. Is it correct?

Thanks.

Lis


The only thing that matters is that the angle connects the points of the box....
it really does not matter where you start drawing the box as you only wish to define the degrees so that the angles can be used on any scale.

The exact angles do not matter :lol: the proportions do.

There is a margin of error of 5* when drawing Major angles; these "errors" are known as sharp and flat angles.

35 & 25 degrees is considered to be a 30 degree angle.

You do not have to wait for a "trend" before the angles of ascent and decline are known.
The charts follow very predictable patterns which, when recognized, cause your risk to combust :P


You are killing me :shock:

The size that you want the diamond to be determines the starting and ending points.
If I want a diamond that stretches over 70 price bars then the starting point is 1 and I drag the box 69 bars into the future.

If I determined that price was following the major angle of 30* then I take that 30* line and place it over the 70 price bar box so that the line runs through one of the left edges.

I then drag the right edge of the box until it stops on the line giving me a pip total that represents the angle of 30* on this scale.

N / 30 = 1 degree
where N is the the number of pips that is divided by the angle.

Now all I have to do is:

1. Multiple the result to get the desired angle
2. Drag a line horizontally 69 bars into the future
3. Drag the right end of the line vertically to the number of pips which represents the desired angle.

Are major angles more important than sharps or flats?

10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50-55-60-65-70-75-80

One of these angles is the angle that the next trend/channel is going to adhere to...which one of the 15 angles is it?

Here let me help you:

10-(15)-20
25-(30)-35
40-(45)-50
55-(60)-65
70-(75)-80

15-30-45-60-75 <---we cut the possibilities by ~67%

The maximum error is 5* which means that price either penetrates the major angle or just misses it (when have trend lines ever been perfect?).

We don't trade during non movement so we can eliminate 15 degrees.

When price rises on a 75 degree angle it is usually too risky or too late to enter.

This leaves us with the highest probability angles of 30-45-60 degrees with a 5* margin of error.

We have now cut the possibilities down by 80%

If we notice that the chart is using sharp angles then we use 35-50-65 degree angles.
If we notice that the chart is using flat angles then we use 25-40-55 degree angles.
If we notice a pattern (Increase by 2 or decrease by half etc) then we will adjust based on the pattern.

Now if you could only learn which of the 3 angles and 3 types to use and where to place them then there is a high probability that you will see into the future while other trader's are reaching around in the dark.

I have on many occasions projected the price action out into the future while price was still rising or falling and had price stop and follow my channel anywhere from several hours to days on end...
but that is more than you could possibly digest at the moment.

PS: for those of you who do not understand Zero Line concepts your use of these lines will only lead to laughter and not on your end ;)

This is a little sloppy, but it is 8am and I am fergin tired as hey'all

Image

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:04 pm

Hi MO,

I am sorry - don't mean to give you headache :P Hope you had a good rest.

I think I understand most of the details. Just one thing - regarding this comment:

1. Multiple the result to get the desired angle

Is it multiply the angle by the pip per degree to get the pip range?

Thanks.

Lis

MightyOne wrote:
monolisa wrote:MO,

I hope you can help me understand.

In order to draw a box you need 2 key points which are diagonal to each other (eg. upper left and lower right). I am happy with the notion that the starting point is determined by personal preference, but without know the "future" (ie the lower right or the upper right point) it's not possible to draw a box.

Also are you able to elaborate on "used on any scale"? Is it related to timeframe?

So the major angles are more important than sharp/flat variants?

Thanks.

Lis

MightyOne wrote:
monolisa wrote:Thanks, MO.

I wonder how the method could be put into practical use.

I can see how the pip value of angles is calcuated. However, how do we know the future angle value when the trend changes? The angle is usually confirmed later when the trend materialise and at that moment a number of bars has been passed.

I also notice you draw the upper left corner of the box at the 1st retracement of the trend. Is it correct?

Thanks.

Lis


The only thing that matters is that the angle connects the points of the box....
it really does not matter where you start drawing the box as you only wish to define the degrees so that the angles can be used on any scale.

The exact angles do not matter :lol: the proportions do.

There is a margin of error of 5* when drawing Major angles; these "errors" are known as sharp and flat angles.

35 & 25 degrees is considered to be a 30 degree angle.

You do not have to wait for a "trend" before the angles of ascent and decline are known.
The charts follow very predictable patterns which, when recognized, cause your risk to combust :P


You are killing me :shock:

The size that you want the diamond to be determines the starting and ending points.
If I want a diamond that stretches over 70 price bars then the starting point is 1 and I drag the box 69 bars into the future.

If I determined that price was following the major angle of 30* then I take that 30* line and place it over the 70 price bar box so that the line runs through one of the left edges.

I then drag the right edge of the box until it stops on the line giving me a pip total that represents the angle of 30* on this scale.

N / 30 = 1 degree
where N is the the number of pips that is divided by the angle.

Now all I have to do is:

1. Multiple the result to get the desired angle
2. Drag a line horizontally 69 bars into the future
3. Drag the right end of the line vertically to the number of pips which represents the desired angle.

Are major angles more important than sharps or flats?

10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50-55-60-65-70-75-80

One of these angles is the angle that the next trend/channel is going to adhere to...which one of the 15 angles is it?

Here let me help you:

10-(15)-20
25-(30)-35
40-(45)-50
55-(60)-65
70-(75)-80

15-30-45-60-75 <---we cut the possibilities by ~67%

The maximum error is 5* which means that price either penetrates the major angle or just misses it (when have trend lines ever been perfect?).

We don't trade during non movement so we can eliminate 15 degrees.

When price rises on a 75 degree angle it is usually too risky or too late to enter.

This leaves us with the highest probability angles of 30-45-60 degrees with a 5* margin of error.

We have now cut the possibilities down by 80%

If we notice that the chart is using sharp angles then we use 35-50-65 degree angles.
If we notice that the chart is using flat angles then we use 25-40-55 degree angles.
If we notice a pattern (Increase by 2 or decrease by half etc) then we will adjust based on the pattern.

Now if you could only learn which of the 3 angles and 3 types to use and where to place them then there is a high probability that you will see into the future while other trader's are reaching around in the dark.

I have on many occasions projected the price action out into the future while price was still rising or falling and had price stop and follow my channel anywhere from several hours to days on end...
but that is more than you could possibly digest at the moment.

PS: for those of you who do not understand Zero Line concepts your use of these lines will only lead to laughter and not on your end ;)

This is a little sloppy, but it is 8am and I am fergin tired as hey'all

Image
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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Patch
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Postby Patch » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:24 pm

monolisa wrote:I understand your feeling, Patch.

Losing is part of trading, the important thing is that you need to learn from it and keep your losses tight (and let your profits run!!).

Lis


Lis, and that my dear is the key, knowing how to read the market, and when to hold them pips, and when to fold em.

I find it a lot easier said than done. jb

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:28 pm

Today's GBPJPY MZ trade. I covered the trade because 1) it reached my target profit level 2) price action has slowed down, and 3) time to go to bed :)

Image

Lis
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:35 pm

Patch,

Absolutely agree. I think the moment will come :)

Lis

Patch wrote:
monolisa wrote:I understand your feeling, Patch.

Losing is part of trading, the important thing is that you need to learn from it and keep your losses tight (and let your profits run!!).

Lis


Lis, and that my dear is the key, knowing how to read the market, and when to hold them pips, and when to fold em.

I find it a lot easier said than done. jb
"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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monolisa
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Postby monolisa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:42 pm

Who Am I ? wrote:Hi Lis,

Can you please post this template on your chart?

-- WAI?

monolisa wrote:Nice trade, es/pip. Have a good nite.

Image

Lis
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MTF_MZ.tpl
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"Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know neither your enemy or yourself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu

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