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marcromero
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Postby marcromero » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:17 pm

Es/pip thank you so much you just opened my eyes to the zline thing. I've been trying to get a grip in this for months. Ok I see why you would have entered at the 1 in the blue zone(is that the mo zone) but why would you have entered in the 2 area? Also how do you make that blue zone?

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Postby es/pip » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:26 pm

marcromero wrote:Es/pip thank you so much you just opened my eyes to the zline thing. I've been trying to get a grip in this for months. Ok I see why you would have entered at the 1 in the blue zone(is that the mo zone) but why would you have entered in the 2 area? Also how do you make that blue zone?


you dont just enter in the MZ or at a Zl bec it is a zone or a line

"a true zl trade happens on bars that are back to back"--MO

so if i didnt enter on bar #1 i would have traded into it on bar #2

and this is a 30 min chart so i would have really been looking at a 5 min chart and tried to get in based on momentum

to make the rect. use the rect. draw tool
Last edited by es/pip on Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby es/pip » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:35 pm

MightyOne wrote:
es/pip wrote:
MightyOne wrote:Talking about this trade or that trade is almost a stupid waste of time.
Really it all comes down to how you manage your money.

Again, managing your money is almost all there is to trading.

A very small fraction of your success is based on your technical analysis. I can OOooOOOo you and I can AhhhhAHhhh you, but in the end it is all just money management.

Massive profit does not come from an explosion in price from the point of your entry but from an implosion of risk.

High risk is always paired with low reward (scalp/ish)

AND

Low risk is always paired with high reward.

The first goal is to secure a profit with the highest probability of success and the second goal is to subdivide that profit into two parts
and trade for a large profit with a high risk multiple.

Sure, you can risk 4-5% per trade every trade, but let me ask you:

How many millions do you have?

I know that you place more than 2 trades per day so it stands to reason than you can achieve 50/100/150% per week risking 5% per trade right?

If you don't have millions I can tell you the reason right now:

YOU SUCK :roll:

Just kidding...

You are losing too much too often to gain too little.

If you are wrong then you are usually wrong immediately
and if you are right then you are usually right in a big way.
So do your self a favor and use a small position size to
reduce the magnitude of instant loss and and be bold
enough to hold in a big way.

Investing has its place
Trading has its place
Scalping has its place

None are right all of the time

but each is right some of the time

and some of the time is where you make
your money all of the time.


Maybe I need to think about all of this and maybe refine how i am going about the way i risk and target my trades.

I will admit---------- i put on a trade and i risk around 4% and if i have a target i shoot for it if PA turns before it gets there i get out, if it closes against me i get out wherever i can.

I have not traded in the way you recommend-- in building up a small profit on each scalp based on risk and then going for the gusto so to speak.

Friday--us session was pretty choppy and none of my targets were reached----was i up 15-20 pips in some trades---yes--did i make any good money off of them-----no

i adjusted half way thru and started scalping because of the chop----had i scalped and built my risk on each trade i would had obviously done a lot better

thoughts


My 3-4% is probably different from your 3-4% since my risk is based on high water mark.

It is just some thing you learn over time that more risk does not equal more profit it equals more risk.

More profit equals more profit :P
More risk equals more risk :shock:

Most traders use their win ratio to determine how much risk they
can take on similar to a teenager with a credit card.

I use my win ratio to secure a profit which is then divided into
two (or four) separate trades insuring minimum draw down and thus maximum compound returns.

Holding for hundreds of pips is not worth the
delay in compounding unless:

1. Your risk is very small.
The longer you hold the greater the chance of being zero lined.

2. You got in on a very small stop and the large move offers
the potential to make 20/50/80% gains that you would normally
not be able to accomplish while trying to "unfold" the market.

3. Despite 1 & 2 you should not hold for periods longer than 2 bars of the time frame you are trading; it is important that you rescale
your position size for maximum growth.

The other day the EURUSD fell ~260 pips in a matter of hours giving an account boost of up to 52%.

These massive frog jumps in your account on LOW RISK are what
really get you to where you are going.

In closing I will say that if you are risking 5% per trade then you should at the very least be averaging 25% per week.
If you are not averaging 25% per week then it is because you are
risking 5% per trade.


thanks

i am going to have to look at all this again

i am risking 4% per trade and averaging a good bit over 20% per week, i guess what i need to try and figure out is if i trade the risk like you are saying what would that do to my bottom line each week-- vrs risking a standard 4% on every trade

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Postby marcromero » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:36 pm

es/pip wrote:
marcromero wrote:Es/pip thank you so much you just opened my eyes to the zline thing. I've been trying to get a grip in this for months. Ok I see why you would have entered at the 1 in the blue zone(is that the mo zone) but why would you have entered in the 2 area? Also how do you make that blue zone?


you dont just enter in the MZ or at a Zl bec it is a zone or a line

"a true zl trade happens on bars that are back to back"

so if i didnt enter on bar #1 i would have traded into it on bar #2

and this is a 30 min chart so i would have really been looking at a 5 min chart and tried to get in based on momentum

to make the rect. use the rect. draw tool


Ok thanks

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Postby es/pip » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:51 pm

marcromero wrote:
es/pip wrote:
marcromero wrote:Es/pip thank you so much you just opened my eyes to the zline thing. I've been trying to get a grip in this for months. Ok I see why you would have entered at the 1 in the blue zone(is that the mo zone) but why would you have entered in the 2 area? Also how do you make that blue zone?


you dont just enter in the MZ or at a Zl bec it is a zone or a line

"a true zl trade happens on bars that are back to back"

so if i didnt enter on bar #1 i would have traded into it on bar #2

and this is a 30 min chart so i would have really been looking at a 5 min chart and tried to get in based on momentum

to make the rect. use the rect. draw tool


Ok thanks



that is where i would place my actual zl----- due to the fact that you had multiple bars coming back into your zl/mz ----it is treated differently than a regular zl/mz trade

when you have multiple bars you " trade away from support/ resistance"--MO-------- so i would have gone down to a 5/15 min and traded away from my zl based on momentum

also in this case the two down bars had no momo so i would have been more inclined to maybe take a 1/4 position at or near the zline and avg. into it

but where u placed your Zl would be exactly where i would have placed mine, bec that is where all the longs are holding profit from
Last edited by es/pip on Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MightyOne » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Amendment to MoNumbers:
.
If a 1+ (MoNumber)candle does not engulf all 0's and/or 1's between 2+ (MoNumber) candles then it is a 0 (not momentum)

This solves the problem of size and 2x the prev. candle is no longer required.
Consecutive momentum in 1 direction is given more strength.

Image

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Postby marcromero » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:56 pm

what is momo?

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Postby es/pip » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:01 pm

marcromero wrote:what is momo?


momentum

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Postby marcromero » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:07 pm

o ok duh:)

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Postby prochargedmopar » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:31 pm

I can SEE 1 thing.

After MO's last post and es/pips description to macro about his ZL placement being correct,

I know nothing of this style of trading!!!!!!!!!!
The last 3 month's of reading was a waste of my time.
I don't get it.

Double this, triple that, MoMo here, MoMo there. Held profit for this guy/zeroed out for that guy(me), ect.

Why can't somebody break it down into a simple post with some clear descriptions so that us noobs can actually see and be given something to use to make a pip or two.

I'm very frustrated as you can tell.
I want to trade, not just follow some system because that DOES NOT WORK.

Try to take a trade randomly off the DTB template, Your gonna get waylayed. I've tried it.
Take a random trade off the buyzone and the same thing will happen. YOUR account will be drained.

You've got to know what trades are good/high probability before ever taking some SIGNAL!!!
And what does this mean? YOU, yes YOU don't need no stinkin signal because you are a trader that knows what the Hell is going on in the first place.

Someone want to teach me how to be a trader??.........No "system" will be accepted either.
I WANT TO TRADE!
Pro
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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