Never Lose Again

free & uncensored discussion arena for TheRumpledOne

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
TheRumpledOne
rank: 10000+ posts
rank: 10000+ posts
Posts: 11396
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Reputation: 45
Location: Oregon
Real name: Avery T. Horton, Jr.
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:15 pm

Just for you, Don, I'll post this once again:

I trade with MB Trading Direct Access Brokerage Firm

MBT is an ECN. THERE IS NO FIXED SPREAD IN FOREX.

You can google and find out what I really think about "FIXED SPREAD BANDITS".

I'll leave it at that so I don't get banned.

How do I avoid the spread?

I explained this to someone yesterday in an IM.

With MBT you pay a commission rather than having a "FIXED SPREAD".

It's "apples and oranges" so don't try to compare. "THE MATRIX HAS YOU" and you need to "FREE YOUR MIND" to understand what I am about to explain.

Let's say the current bid/ask is 1.5010 x 1.5015

The current spread is 5 pips.

You want to SHORT.

You SHORT at 1.5010.

You set a TP at 1.5005.

Bid/Ask becomes 1.5005 x 1.5009 and the current spread is 4 pips.

At MBT, you will get filled if the bid is 1.5005 and someone TAKES your offer.

Bid/Ask is now 1.5004 x 1.5009 and YOU HAVE YOUR PROFIT.

Note: the ASK never reached 1.5005. THIS IS IMPORTANT!

If you entered this order at a FIXED SPREAD BANDIT, whoops I mean broker, your order is STILL OPEN!!

The bid/ask must become 1.5000 x 1.5005 and your order HITS the Ask.

DO YOU GET IT?

If not, then read this over and over and over again until the LIGHT BULB goes off!!

The day I found out about MBT is the day I opened an account there and stopped trading with FIXED SPREAD BROKERS.

The simplest thing to do is to load up a demo account at MBT Group and see it with your own eyes.

When you place your TP Bid offer at 1.5005, your bid is displayed on Level II.

The point is with MBT your offer gets hit.

With FIXED SPREAD BROKERS you have to wait to hit their offer.

Maybe this might help:

First:

1.5010 x 1.5015

and price drops...

1.5009 x 1.5014

1.5008 x 1.5013

1.5007 x 1.5013

1.5006 x 1.5012

1.5006 x 1.5011

1.5005 x 1.5011 You may get hit

1.5005 x 1.5010 You may get hit

1.5004 x 1.5009 YOU COVERED 5 PIP GROSS PROFIT

AND LET'S CONTINUE

1.5003 x 1.5008

1.5002 x 1.5007

1.5001 x 1.5006

1.5000 x 1.5005 YOUR FIXED SPREAD BROKER FILLS YOUR ORDER.

Does that make it clearer??

What about the commission cost?

The commission varies depending on the pair trading.

It is $.50 per 10k minilot on USDJPY. So if I gross 2 pips, I am making money.

From the MBT site:


Commission Rates

Fixed spreads are a way for FCMs to markup or markdown the best bid or offer. FCMs do this to hide their fee into the price of the currency pair instead of displaying their best quote. Common sense tells you that no one works for free, so when you see an FCM claim they have ?no commission?, that should be a red flag. So how are they getting paid? Its simple: they are making money with the built-in markup/markdown in the spread.

Our FCM, MB Trading Futures, has nothing to hide. They offer tighter spreads with no markups/markdowns and openly display a low commission rate.

Commissions are based on total dollar amount traded: $5 per $100,000 traded.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
TheRumpledOne
rank: 10000+ posts
rank: 10000+ posts
Posts: 11396
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Reputation: 45
Location: Oregon
Real name: Avery T. Horton, Jr.
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:16 pm

Just for you, Don:

I trade with MB Trading Direct Access Brokerage Firm

MBT is an ECN. THERE IS NO FIXED SPREAD IN FOREX.

You can google and find out what I really think about "FIXED SPREAD BANDITS".

I'll leave it at that so I don't get banned.

How do I avoid the spread?

I explained this to someone yesterday in an IM.

With MBT you pay a commission rather than having a "FIXED SPREAD".

It's "apples and oranges" so don't try to compare. "THE MATRIX HAS YOU" and you need to "FREE YOUR MIND" to understand what I am about to explain.

Let's say the current bid/ask is 1.5010 x 1.5015

The current spread is 5 pips.

You want to SHORT.

You SHORT at 1.5010.

You set a TP at 1.5005.

Bid/Ask becomes 1.5005 x 1.5009 and the current spread is 4 pips.

At MBT, you will get filled if the bid is 1.5005 and someone TAKES your offer.

Bid/Ask is now 1.5004 x 1.5009 and YOU HAVE YOUR PROFIT.

Note: the ASK never reached 1.5005. THIS IS IMPORTANT!

If you entered this order at a FIXED SPREAD BANDIT, whoops I mean broker, your order is STILL OPEN!!

The bid/ask must become 1.5000 x 1.5005 and your order HITS the Ask.

DO YOU GET IT?

If not, then read this over and over and over again until the LIGHT BULB goes off!!

The day I found out about MBT is the day I opened an account there and stopped trading with FIXED SPREAD BROKERS.

The simplest thing to do is to load up a demo account at MBT Group and see it with your own eyes.

When you place your TP Bid offer at 1.5005, your bid is displayed on Level II.

The point is with MBT your offer gets hit.

With FIXED SPREAD BROKERS you have to wait to hit their offer.

Maybe this might help:

First:

1.5010 x 1.5015

and price drops...

1.5009 x 1.5014

1.5008 x 1.5013

1.5007 x 1.5013

1.5006 x 1.5012

1.5006 x 1.5011

1.5005 x 1.5011 You may get hit

1.5005 x 1.5010 You may get hit

1.5004 x 1.5009 YOU COVERED 5 PIP GROSS PROFIT

AND LET'S CONTINUE

1.5003 x 1.5008

1.5002 x 1.5007

1.5001 x 1.5006

1.5000 x 1.5005 YOUR FIXED SPREAD BROKER FILLS YOUR ORDER.

Does that make it clearer??

What about the commission cost?

The commission varies depending on the pair trading.

It is $.50 per 10k minilot on USDJPY. So if I gross 2 pips, I am making money.

From the MBT site:


Commission Rates

Fixed spreads are a way for FCMs to markup or markdown the best bid or offer. FCMs do this to hide their fee into the price of the currency pair instead of displaying their best quote. Common sense tells you that no one works for free, so when you see an FCM claim they have ?no commission?, that should be a red flag. So how are they getting paid? Its simple: they are making money with the built-in markup/markdown in the spread.

Our FCM, MB Trading Futures, has nothing to hide. They offer tighter spreads with no markups/markdowns and openly display a low commission rate.

Commissions are based on total dollar amount traded: $5 per $100,000 traded.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

xmess7
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby xmess7 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:17 pm

dragon33 wrote:Finally this topic is discussed where it should be discussed.

Greetings to all new and old. This is really the place where we al can make money until we can stop working and doing this fulltime.


Dragon, First of all great TRADING! I incorporated your recommendation on the money managment into an EA (soon to be uploaded) and it is providing great results :).

Just wanted to note.. we do not make money. I think only governments can do that LOL. What we do is take money LOL :). Which as far as I am concern is just fine.

One of things that is interesting about all this is that even if the world was to get into a great depression and given that the banks and financial instititions do not change the trade of currencies, I beleive that we should be ok because we are basically following the money. Just like we follow price. I hope that the world doesn't fall into a depression but if it does I will be there to help out folks.

User avatar
TheRumpledOne
rank: 10000+ posts
rank: 10000+ posts
Posts: 11396
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Reputation: 45
Location: Oregon
Real name: Avery T. Horton, Jr.
Gender: None specified
Contact:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:16 am

TradeStation deleted the TREND INDICATOR - NEVER LOSE AGAIN thread which was the most widely viewed thread in TradeStation history. Fortunately, the thread was retrieved from the google cache.

TREND INDICATOR - NEVER LOSE AGAIN

http://rapidshare.com/files/33011697/Tr ... .rar.html/

TREND INDICATOR - NEVER LOSE AGAIN ELD files

http://rapidshare.com/files/33007096/DATA.rar.html/
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

kiwisteve
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:15 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby kiwisteve » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:16 am

Thanks TRO for the detailed explanation above re ECN vs FSB.

I just want to clarify the Order Types you use to ensure you buy at the bid and sell at the ask. I have found that if I want to enter Long with a Stop / Limit order, I can buy at the Bid (and Take Profit at the Bid) provided I set the stop method preference to "Trade Through", and converslely, if I want to enter Short with a Stop / Limit order, I can sell at the Bid (and Take Profit at the Bid) provided I set the stop method preference to "First Touch" (thereby eliminating the spread).

Just wondering if you adjust the "stop method" from Trade Through to First Touch depending on whether you are going long or short?

Thanks.
Kiwisteve

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

nutz505
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:58 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male

Postby nutz505 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:43 am

kiwisteve wrote:Thanks TRO for the detailed explanation above re ECN vs FSB.

I just want to clarify the Order Types you use to ensure you buy at the bid and sell at the ask. I have found that if I want to enter Long with a Stop / Limit order, I can buy at the Bid (and Take Profit at the Bid) provided I set the stop method preference to "Trade Through", and converslely, if I want to enter Short with a Stop / Limit order, I can sell at the Bid (and Take Profit at the Bid) provided I set the stop method preference to "First Touch" (thereby eliminating the spread).

Just wondering if you adjust the "stop method" from Trade Through to First Touch depending on whether you are going long or short?

Thanks.
Kiwisteve


Kiwisteve,

I have also been using the suggestions you posted on the thread last week and I have definitely noticed a big improvement on getting filled. When I first started trading I was not getting filled and I would lose most of the profit. Now I switch the between the two and I have been more successful in grabbing some pips.

Thanks for the info.:D

Rich

nutz505
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:58 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: Male

Postby nutz505 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:49 am

TRO,

Had a good week I was able to use your Dyn Fibs method and do 17 trades with 1 loser and come out 135 pips ahead for the week. :D

Thank you very much for the putting this method out in the wild for free.

Good trading to all next week

Rich

xmess7
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:07 am
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby xmess7 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:07 am

disbellj wrote:TRO:

If I Buy at the Ask and Sell at the Bid, there is no difference which broker I'm at, is there? If I Buy at 1.0000 (Ask) and sell at 1.0010 (Bid), that's 10 pips gain, no matter which broker I'm with. Correct?


MB Navigator:
Buy at Ask 1.0000
Sell at Bid 1.0010
Profit: 10 pips

Others:
Buy at Ask 1.0000
Sell at Bid 1.0010
Profit: 10 pips

Same thing, or am I missing something? And coming back with "if you don't take it as fact but would rather be brainwashed...", that is still no satisfactory answer, because it STILL doesn't respond to or answer the points I've made multiple times now myself.


Don

TheRumpledOne wrote:Don:

Until you accept the fact that you are NOT paying a spread AND a commission at MBT, you'll never understand.

You have been BRAINWASHED into thinking you are paying a spread.

Trading on an ECN vs. trading with a Fixed Spread Broker is comparing apples to oranges when it comes to how they work.

I have listed detailed examples of why you should trade with an ECN instead of a FSB. You need to read it until the lightbulb goes off.. or you can choose to believe fiction rather than fact.



Don think of it this way.

With others you have to beat the spread in order to get profit.
With MBT you have a chance of not even encountering a spread.
With MBT all you have to do is beat the commission to get profit.

We need all the edge we can get cause we are the small fish :).

Commission? Well ............

With others you enter the trade behind by the spread. (say in this example -3 pips). If each pip is like $10 then you have automatically paid the broker $30 (actually you paid another bank and the broker). The spread u see is actually a markup from the real spread.

With MBT you don't pay no $30 dollars you pay $10 (commission is around $0.50/lot both ways, opening and closing the trade) for 10 lots. The commission depends on the currency you are trading. I think I saw $0.67 for some currencies. Even then, you are paying $13.40 for trading 10 lots.

So the question is do you want to shell out the extra $20 dollars to the broker or would you rather have that in your pocket?

Think about this too. When you get to the big numbers just imagine how much you will be forking over to the "no commissions" brokers?

The only thing I wish MBT would allow is a little higher leverage for small accounts. I can live (and do) with that risk when I am trying to build small accounts.

Peace of the Great One to you dude!

User avatar
4stroke
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:27 am
Reputation: 0
Location: Belgium
Gender: None specified

xmess

Postby 4stroke » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:14 am

Hi ,

couldn't catch sleep , so was reading here.
I was thinking of asking a serious question , and was surprised that you were thinking in the same direction.

Here is what kept me away from sleep :
You all know that the world is in a financial crisis.
Everybody has his own websites to get updated on this matter.
The pages i read , say that we are heading for a next "Weimar" ; that would mean that all paper money goes to waste.The only place to be would be gold bullion.What kills today economy, is easy credit , and OTC derivates with huge leverage.I really hope we never reach the above!
But in case we do: what will happen with forextrading?If paper money
gets worthless, what's the use of grabbing pips?
[shadow=red]
Please comment, this is very important !![/shadow]

disbellj
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:52 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender: None specified

Postby disbellj » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:12 pm

xmess7,

If I could consistently get around the spread, I would be glad to pay the commissions. But there is a certain way you have to go about ordering to do so, and I haven't gotten those steps down yet, so I have paid the spread even with MB Trading. I did not pay it to them, but I did pay it to the Seller when I was Buying, and have started trades in the negative multiple times even with MBT. If I could get to where I effectively bought at the Bid and sold at the Ask, then I wouldn't have to "overcome" spread. I just don't have it down yet. I do understand better after TRO posting the same thing 3 times, but putting what I think I understand into practice will have to wait until the new Forex week.

Don


xmess7 wrote:
disbellj wrote:TRO:

If I Buy at the Ask and Sell at the Bid, there is no difference which broker I'm at, is there? If I Buy at 1.0000 (Ask) and sell at 1.0010 (Bid), that's 10 pips gain, no matter which broker I'm with. Correct?


MB Navigator:
Buy at Ask 1.0000
Sell at Bid 1.0010
Profit: 10 pips

Others:
Buy at Ask 1.0000
Sell at Bid 1.0010
Profit: 10 pips

Same thing, or am I missing something? And coming back with "if you don't take it as fact but would rather be brainwashed...", that is still no satisfactory answer, because it STILL doesn't respond to or answer the points I've made multiple times now myself.


Don

TheRumpledOne wrote:Don:

Until you accept the fact that you are NOT paying a spread AND a commission at MBT, you'll never understand.

You have been BRAINWASHED into thinking you are paying a spread.

Trading on an ECN vs. trading with a Fixed Spread Broker is comparing apples to oranges when it comes to how they work.

I have listed detailed examples of why you should trade with an ECN instead of a FSB. You need to read it until the lightbulb goes off.. or you can choose to believe fiction rather than fact.



Don think of it this way.

With others you have to beat the spread in order to get profit.
With MBT you have a chance of not even encountering a spread.
With MBT all you have to do is beat the commission to get profit.

We need all the edge we can get cause we are the small fish :).

Commission? Well ............

With others you enter the trade behind by the spread. (say in this example -3 pips). If each pip is like $10 then you have automatically paid the broker $30 (actually you paid another bank and the broker). The spread u see is actually a markup from the real spread.

With MBT you don't pay no $30 dollars you pay $10 (commission is around $0.50/lot both ways, opening and closing the trade) for 10 lots. The commission depends on the currency you are trading. I think I saw $0.67 for some currencies. Even then, you are paying $13.40 for trading 10 lots.

So the question is do you want to shell out the extra $20 dollars to the broker or would you rather have that in your pocket?

Think about this too. When you get to the big numbers just imagine how much you will be forking over to the "no commissions" brokers?

The only thing I wish MBT would allow is a little higher leverage for small accounts. I can live (and do) with that risk when I am trying to build small accounts.

Peace of the Great One to you dude!

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “TheRumpledOne”