lukx zline trading log + cfabian p.35 + adaseb p.48

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PTG
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Postby PTG » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:46 pm

I suppose you need to take market conditions into account:

1. trend
2. consolidation
3. reversal

I think this has been said many times before (please correct me if I'm wrong) but zerolines are not entry signal as such. You need to use them in a context. The context in this case would be the consolidation that is (was) going on. You would have to look for a place to go long at the low end of the range. A zeroline is merely such a place.
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fx_disciple
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Re: what's wrong?

Postby fx_disciple » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:17 am

dragon33 wrote:
fx_disciple wrote:I have to declare my biggest loss using the ZL approach. so if any of you "see it" today and profited from where I fell please tell me what's wrong with it? and how I should have dodge it.

here was the original plot:
I entered the short position today at 06.51 broco time @129.07 because I "think" price is commencing downward. 40 pips later, I have to admit that the original "thought" was wrong. Hence, the question... what was wrong? es/pip or dragon33, can you help me figure it out please.

here's the crime scene:


You picked the wrong zerolines. I have added new lines to let you see what you where doing wrong. You where shorting a position after a drop of three hours in a row???? Why the hell are you doing that!
You shorted at a zeroline on a place where no profit is left.

Image

Image


dragon33, so your point is that I was way late into the profit potential when I should have entered at the beginning of that candle or the candle right?

looking at the chart you pointed out, was your added line based on H4 or H1? because I noticed that the up momo candlestick on H4 wasn't even completed at that time (9 Dec 20:00) and on the H1 the momo up appeared at 9 Dec 22:00. did you take the position on 9 Dec 23:00 or 10 Dec 00:00?

also, at the time you put that line good for buying (10 Dec 09:00), the previous candle only had a tiny body. so my next question would be did you base that entry solely on the other day's line and how the price reacted on 10 Dec 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00?

I appreciate everyone of your answers.

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questions

Postby fx_disciple » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:01 am

aliassmith wrote:
I think I see your game plan from the pics.

The H4 chart is showing a down trend so you wanted to go with it.
If you played the zline on the H4 specifically then I don't believe
it failed as of the time of that picture. You need big stops to play
that timeframe directly. probably could have been out at BE.

Now if you dialed down to play it off of the H1 chart then you
should have played it off of the H1 zline short and not the H4.
Playing the H1 you probably would have took a small loss.


so from your experience just how much is needed as stops to take on H4 and how much for H1? it's hard to crunch the numbers when you have only a little live trading experience like me.


PTG wrote:I suppose you need to take market conditions into account:

1. trend
2. consolidation
3. reversal

I think this has been said many times before (please correct me if I'm wrong) but zerolines are not entry signal as such. You need to use them in a context. The context in this case would be the consolidation that is (was) going on. You would have to look for a place to go long at the low end of the range. A zeroline is merely such a place.


by the 3 things you pointed out, which TF do you think represents the best TF to watch for those 3 things? I mean, those three appears on every TF from M5 to MN. and what is/ are the tool(s) that helped you the most to be able to identify when and where those three takes place?


I'm sorry if I asked too many questions to you guys but I really want to grow in this golden goose of profession.

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Re: questions

Postby adaseb » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:24 am

fx_disciple wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
I think I see your game plan from the pics.

The H4 chart is showing a down trend so you wanted to go with it.
If you played the zline on the H4 specifically then I don't believe
it failed as of the time of that picture. You need big stops to play
that timeframe directly. probably could have been out at BE.

Now if you dialed down to play it off of the H1 chart then you
should have played it off of the H1 zline short and not the H4.
Playing the H1 you probably would have took a small loss.


so from your experience just how much is needed as stops to take on H4 and how much for H1? it's hard to crunch the numbers when you have only a little live trading experience like me.


PTG wrote:I suppose you need to take market conditions into account:

1. trend
2. consolidation
3. reversal

I think this has been said many times before (please correct me if I'm wrong) but zerolines are not entry signal as such. You need to use them in a context. The context in this case would be the consolidation that is (was) going on. You would have to look for a place to go long at the low end of the range. A zeroline is merely such a place.


by the 3 things you pointed out, which TF do you think represents the best TF to watch for those 3 things? I mean, those three appears on every TF from M5 to MN. and what is/ are the tool(s) that helped you the most to be able to identify when and where those three takes place?


I'm sorry if I asked too many questions to you guys but I really want to grow in this golden goose of profession.


Basically if you are trying to trade off a H4 ZeroLine you should go to your M5/M15 timeframe and enter somewhere there.

It's best to enter after a reversal has taken place.

So if price is approaching a SHORT H4 ZL. You wait until it reaches that area and then you watch what it happening. Usually it will start reversing. When it starts reversing and going down, DO NOT ENTER THEN, you wait until it bounced and then you enter. The bounce is usually to take out all the short ZL traders, so that's why you enter after it bounces.

I will try to post a few charts later if you want some illustrations.

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Re: questions

Postby aliassmith » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:43 am

fx_disciple wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
I think I see your game plan from the pics.

The H4 chart is showing a down trend so you wanted to go with it.
If you played the zline on the H4 specifically then I don't believe
it failed as of the time of that picture. You need big stops to play
that timeframe directly. probably could have been out at BE.

Now if you dialed down to play it off of the H1 chart then you
should have played it off of the H1 zline short and not the H4.
Playing the H1 you probably would have took a small loss.


so from your experience just how much is needed as stops to take on H4 and how much for H1? it's hard to crunch the numbers when you have only a little live trading experience like me.


Well you could wait until a lower timeframe gives you confluence with
a smaller timeframe zline as was previously mentioned. Or you could
use position sizing to play the H4 directly. Or you can "trade the
eternal" as MightyOne developed.
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dragon33
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Postby dragon33 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:30 am

This should be an answer to a lot of people who are struggling with the entry and the SL.

Lets start with a picture!
Image

Lets say you are entering with a limit order at the 50% section of the H4 candle from where the lines are starting. That way you are entering without any view what price will do next!!! This is told several times but for those who don't have the discipline to wait put your SL at the bottom or the 0% section!!!

On the next picture i will give you other possibilities.

Image

The white lines on this picture are the same as on previous picture drawn on the H4 chart. The red lines are the new analysis!
Now you can see what would have happened if you got in with a limit. It depends on what for trader you are if you like this or not!! I don't!!

The first blue candle gives you a hint of a possible change but you need to see first some things befor that candle will hold! Let that candle close and see what happen next. Put a line at the 50% area and if price hit that line and run away in the direction you want be ready to enter at body close or high!!! You will make pips immediately. Put your SL at the bottom of the candle with the drawings on!!! If the SL is bigger then 20 take it at your own risk. This was 18 pips. Lets tune the SL.

Image

Now you can see how it is possible to tune the SL. You could have entered with a SL of just 8 pips and when you look up that was a nice RR ;-)
For targeting another difficult part. Every previous H1 open, close or 50% area is a possible stoppoint so be ready to close and try to reenter.
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Postby aliassmith » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:38 pm

dragon33 wrote:This should be an answer to a lot of people who are struggling with the entry and the SL.

Lets start with a picture!
Image

Lets say you are entering with a limit order at the 50% section of the H4 candle from where the lines are starting. That way you are entering without any view what price will do next!!! This is told several times but for those who don't have the discipline to wait put your SL at the bottom or the 0% section!!!

On the next picture i will give you other possibilities.

Image

The white lines on this picture are the same as on previous picture drawn on the H4 chart. The red lines are the new analysis!
Now you can see what would have happened if you got in with a limit. It depends on what for trader you are if you like this or not!! I don't!!

The first blue candle gives you a hint of a possible change but you need to see first some things befor that candle will hold! Let that candle close and see what happen next. Put a line at the 50% area and if price hit that line and run away in the direction you want be ready to enter at body close or high!!! You will make pips immediately. Put your SL at the bottom of the candle with the drawings on!!! If the SL is bigger then 20 take it at your own risk. This was 18 pips. Lets tune the SL.

Image

Now you can see how it is possible to tune the SL. You could have entered with a SL of just 8 pips and when you look up that was a nice RR ;-)
For targeting another difficult part. Every previous H1 open, close or 50% area is a possible stoppoint so be ready to close and try to reenter.


Very nice explaination of doing both entry types . There are other ways
also and I think each trader will need to make a choice that will be best for
them. Usually there is not a one size fits all approach when it comes to trading.

BTW Dragon33, In what thread was it that you posted your live account
going from 400 Eur to 22K Eur? I can't seem to find it.
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Postby JESGPY » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:09 pm

Guys can you help me out and tell me if this was a valid Z-line trade.

Image


thanks for your opinions, advice, and corrections


JUAN

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Postby pablo101 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:37 pm

dragon33 wrote:This should be an answer to a lot of people who are struggling with the entry and the SL.

Lets start with a picture!
Image

Lets say you are entering with a limit order at the 50% section of the H4 candle from where the lines are starting. That way you are entering without any view what price will do next!!! This is told several times but for those who don't have the discipline to wait put your SL at the bottom or the 0% section!!!

On the next picture i will give you other possibilities.

Image

The white lines on this picture are the same as on previous picture drawn on the H4 chart. The red lines are the new analysis!
Now you can see what would have happened if you got in with a limit. It depends on what for trader you are if you like this or not!! I don't!!

The first blue candle gives you a hint of a possible change but you need to see first some things befor that candle will hold! Let that candle close and see what happen next. Put a line at the 50% area and if price hit that line and run away in the direction you want be ready to enter at body close or high!!! You will make pips immediately. Put your SL at the bottom of the candle with the drawings on!!! If the SL is bigger then 20 take it at your own risk. This was 18 pips. Lets tune the SL.

Image

Now you can see how it is possible to tune the SL. You could have entered with a SL of just 8 pips and when you look up that was a nice RR ;-)
For targeting another difficult part. Every previous H1 open, close or 50% area is a possible stoppoint so be ready to close and try to reenter.


I wish I could get my ideas down in words as nice and clear as what you wrote, nice one! :)
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Postby RichieRich » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:10 pm

[/quote]Very nice explaination of doing both entry types . There are other ways
also and I think each trader will need to make a choice that will be best for
them. Usually there is not a one size fits all approach when it comes to trading.

BTW Dragon33, In what thread was it that you posted your live account
going from 400 Eur to 22K Eur? I can't seem to find it.[/quote]

My first post ever! I have been reading this thread for about 2 years now and this is the first time i have felt i wanted to post. Dragon33 great presentation thank you.

Aliassmith since you know of other ways that fit you or other people better why dont you share? Your statement above points towards the fact that you are an established trader and have a wide trading arsenal now i dont know if i have not been looking the right place but could you please point me to the thread where u help people understand this. I am always looking for other peoples view points.

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