Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

free & uncensored discussion arena for TheRumpledOne

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
LeMercenaire
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:11 am
Reputation: 1257
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby LeMercenaire » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:56 am

ia1979 wrote:Hi Lem, many thanks for the quick response. No worries, please take your time. As someone once said, the markets are here for the long haul (hopefully) :). That's a good shout about spread betting. I'm guessing it is because of capital gains implications with a normal FX account? New ESMA regulations are going to cripple us quite a bit as well due to leverage reduction. In any case, have a great weekend and I look forward to learning from you and making a modest 1-2% a day lol, which I'd be more than happy with, seeing that would equate to £500-£1000 daily!

Grand.

You are correct about the tax implications re spread betting accounts but it's also so, so, much simpler to work with. You simply stipulate the amount per point in cash you want to risk / gain and that's it. No need to faff about with lot size blah blah blah.

I will go into acc size preference later but there are things to bare in mind if you plan to counter but there are a couple of ways to deal with that without having to hold an overlarge bank with one broker.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

Mr. Hyde
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:00 am
Reputation: 532
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby Mr. Hyde » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:32 am

LeMercenaire wrote:
ia1979 wrote:Hi Lem, many thanks for the quick response. No worries, please take your time. As someone once said, the markets are here for the long haul (hopefully) :). That's a good shout about spread betting. I'm guessing it is because of capital gains implications with a normal FX account? New ESMA regulations are going to cripple us quite a bit as well due to leverage reduction. In any case, have a great weekend and I look forward to learning from you and making a modest 1-2% a day lol, which I'd be more than happy with, seeing that would equate to £500-£1000 daily!

Grand.

You are correct about the tax implications re spread betting accounts but it's also so, so, much simpler to work with. You simply stipulate the amount per point in cash you want to risk / gain and that's it. No need to faff about with lot size blah blah blah.

I will go into acc size preference later but there are things to bare in mind if you plan to counter but there are a couple of ways to deal with that without having to hold an overlarge bank with one broker.



First and most important question. Are you already profitable with a proven track record. If no then you need to worry about that first. If yes then I would only put in a fraction of your money, lets say $5,000. After a month match what you have earned and just build your account up like that.

And as far as concerning the amount of possible daily gained 1-2% is a good goal to start with and having 5% as a target to reach is also good.

I break down my ES MM like this. I figure a trader will risk 2-5% on a given trade lets say. And on average my stop in the ES is usually 2-3 points but no larger then 5. So I for simplicity sakes say the every point is worth 1%. So making 1-2 points a day (you first goal) is almost no problem. Once you get that I'm sure you will be able to get it up to 5 points a day. I like to aim for a weekly gain of about 30 points a week or 6 a day (I made about 30 points just on Friday and over double that for the week). That gives you a 30% weekly gain and compounded over 2 months adds almost a zero to your account.

Lem changed my trading path by introducing me to the ES and trading shorter term. I wish you the best of luck in your trading endevour.

I personally love the ES

ia1979
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Reputation: 3
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby ia1979 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:19 am

Thanks for your extremely valuable input Mr Hyde. Always good to hear from others that are benefitting from a particular method/instrument. I do have a track record of making 5-10% a month in FX but that's nothing compared to what I've read on this thread :). I mean 30% in one day! Some people don't earn that in 6-12 months. I am willing to follow guidance/instructions wholeheartedly and even if I can reach 2-5% a day, I'd be delighted. Starting with 5k also seems sensible. The reason I wanted to start with a larger account is because in 2 months time, this will be my sole source of income. I currently earn around £3k/month after taxes. Figured with a larger amount of say 50k, earning 3k per month should not be too difficult. On the flip side it also makes me nervous to rely on a broker with such a large (for me anyway) amount of cash. If I start with 10k, and aim for 1-2% a day, that should get me closer to my monthly target of 3k/month. Does that seem feasible? I like the sound of your MM with each point being 1 percent. Could you please tell me how you deal with a losing day psychologically? If a trade goes against you, do you counter trade like Lem or do you let it go and then start again the day after? And what is your preferred method of trading the ES, if you don't mind sharing it? Thanks again.

Mr. Hyde
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:00 am
Reputation: 532
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby Mr. Hyde » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:40 am

ia1979 wrote:Thanks for your extremely valuable input Mr Hyde. Always good to hear from others that are benefitting from a particular method/instrument. I do have a track record of making 5-10% a month in FX but that's nothing compared to what I've read on this thread :). I mean 30% in one day! Some people don't earn that in 6-12 months. I am willing to follow guidance/instructions wholeheartedly and even if I can reach 2-5% a day, I'd be delighted. Starting with 5k also seems sensible. The reason I wanted to start with a larger account is because in 2 months time, this will be my sole source of income. I currently earn around £3k/month after taxes. Figured with a larger amount of say 50k, earning 3k per month should not be too difficult. On the flip side it also makes me nervous to rely on a broker with such a large (for me anyway) amount of cash. If I start with 10k, and aim for 1-2% a day, that should get me closer to my monthly target of 3k/month. Does that seem feasible? I like the sound of your MM with each point being 1 percent. Could you please tell me how you deal with a losing day psychologically? If a trade goes against you, do you counter trade like Lem or do you let it go and then start again the day after? And what is your preferred method of trading the ES, if you don't mind sharing it? Thanks again.



man the best advice I can give you and Im sure almost everyone will agree with me, is "DONT DO IT". I know like every trader before you that heard that you probably wont listen. So my advice would be if your gonna do it, put the whole 50k in there and trade how ever you have been trading to make the 5-10% a month and cut your expenses to nothing. The more money in your account the faster you can compound the returns.....

Oh man I just keep rereading your post and I really hope you don't go threw with it. But your an adult and your gonna do what your gonna do, so on to your other questions.

"Could you please tell me how you deal with a losing day psychologically"

As long as my loses were trades that were a part of my trading plan I try not to think about the loses, cuz I know I will make it back.

If a trade goes against me I just let it hit my SL and look to see what price is saying now. Nope I don't counter per se like Lem (he can trade circles around me) but If I see a reason to get long and short and the RR on both trades is good I will put both trades on letting the winner cover the loser (assuming I don't lose them both).

I trade the ES with all the idea's shared here on Kreslik and just basic price action like 123's w/TTE, triangles, S/R, candlestick patterns, fib's.

Explain how you trade to make your 5-10% gains.

User avatar
Leoheart
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:54 pm
Reputation: 325
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby Leoheart » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:41 pm

ia1979 wrote:Thanks for your extremely valuable input Mr Hyde. Always good to hear from others that are benefitting from a particular method/instrument. I do have a track record of making 5-10% a month in FX but that's nothing compared to what I've read on this thread :). I mean 30% in one day! Some people don't earn that in 6-12 months. I am willing to follow guidance/instructions wholeheartedly and even if I can reach 2-5% a day, I'd be delighted. Starting with 5k also seems sensible. The reason I wanted to start with a larger account is because in 2 months time, this will be my sole source of income. I currently earn around £3k/month after taxes. Figured with a larger amount of say 50k, earning 3k per month should not be too difficult. On the flip side it also makes me nervous to rely on a broker with such a large (for me anyway) amount of cash. If I start with 10k, and aim for 1-2% a day, that should get me closer to my monthly target of 3k/month. Does that seem feasible? I like the sound of your MM with each point being 1 percent. Could you please tell me how you deal with a losing day psychologically? If a trade goes against you, do you counter trade like Lem or do you let it go and then start again the day after? And what is your preferred method of trading the ES, if you don't mind sharing it? Thanks again.


Why will this be the only source of income? Trading is purely a psychological game. A buddy of mine made millions in equities trading opens (worked night shift). He retired at 45 from his day job. We lost touch, but the last I heard he destroyed half of his account. Perhaps totally out now As I hear he is learning how to code while his wife supports the family.

At the time when he was on top I asked him what his edge was -> answer: "I go heavy because I know if I lose every cent,I will still have a day job to fall back on. What do think to his psychological state was after retiring? This is a seasoned pro with many years to experience, trading day & day with the same setup. I'll let that soak in a bit.

Also, not sure what your personal situation is, meaning if your supporting a family. Most extremely successful self employed fulltime trades that I know of, do not have kids & if married the wife also a day job.

Point being: If you can keep the day job, do so by all means. Start with fairly small account. In your scenario 10,000 is more than enough. Use the setups you learned here on kreslik and trade around your schedule. Or migrate to the higher timeframes, for bigger gains.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
LeMercenaire
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:11 am
Reputation: 1257
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby LeMercenaire » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Mr. Hyde wrote:
LeMercenaire wrote:
ia1979 wrote:Hi Lem, many thanks for the quick response. No worries, please take your time. As someone once said, the markets are here for the long haul (hopefully) :). That's a good shout about spread betting. I'm guessing it is because of capital gains implications with a normal FX account? New ESMA regulations are going to cripple us quite a bit as well due to leverage reduction. In any case, have a great weekend and I look forward to learning from you and making a modest 1-2% a day lol, which I'd be more than happy with, seeing that would equate to £500-£1000 daily!

Grand.

You are correct about the tax implications re spread betting accounts but it's also so, so, much simpler to work with. You simply stipulate the amount per point in cash you want to risk / gain and that's it. No need to faff about with lot size blah blah blah.

I will go into acc size preference later but there are things to bare in mind if you plan to counter but there are a couple of ways to deal with that without having to hold an overlarge bank with one broker.



First and most important question. Are you already profitable with a proven track record. If no then you need to worry about that first. If yes then I would only put in a fraction of your money, lets say $5,000. After a month match what you have earned and just build your account up like that.

And as far as concerning the amount of possible daily gained 1-2% is a good goal to start with and having 5% as a target to reach is also good.

I break down my ES MM like this. I figure a trader will risk 2-5% on a given trade lets say. And on average my stop in the ES is usually 2-3 points but no larger then 5. So I for simplicity sakes say the every point is worth 1%. So making 1-2 points a day (you first goal) is almost no problem. Once you get that I'm sure you will be able to get it up to 5 points a day. I like to aim for a weekly gain of about 30 points a week or 6 a day (I made about 30 points just on Friday and over double that for the week). That gives you a 30% weekly gain and compounded over 2 months adds almost a zero to your account.

Lem changed my trading path by introducing me to the ES and trading shorter term. I wish you the best of luck in your trading endevour.

I personally love the ES


Ah, Mr Hyde, thank you. You pretty much nailed it. I'll add any extras specific to me tomorrow.

Mum's birthday party BBQ today and I feel a veg out evening catching up on Le Tour and the F1 GP is about the limit of my efforts tonight!

ia1979
rank: <50 posts
rank: <50 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Reputation: 3
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby ia1979 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:12 am

Thanks guys for all your responses. I'll clarify my situation a bit. I currently do have a job but I'm going through redundancy at work and have been given notice, which is why this will be my only source of regular income (for now at least) . My wife does have a day job so we'll still have another regular income coming in. Although I'm aiming to make 3k+ per month, in reality if I made £1500/month we'd be just fine. Based on my own experience and judging from what others are saying here, I think I have a good chance of making reasonable gains without overstretching myself. Even if I start off with 10k and keep the remaining 40k in my savings, that would appear to be OK to make reasonable gains on the ES. I will carry on reading your comments and follow any guidance that you guys may through my way. I think if I can master making 1-2% a day, that will suit me just fine. I will start demo trading ASAP and see how that works out. I've previously been trading pivot points and aiming to hit either S1 or R1 daily. This was on the hourly chart. But now that I'll have more time, figured it can't hurt to try some high impact scalping. Thanks.

User avatar
Leoheart
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:54 pm
Reputation: 325
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby Leoheart » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:13 am

Mr. Hyde wrote:
LeMercenaire wrote:
ia1979 wrote:Hi Lem, many thanks for the quick response. No worries, please take your time. As someone once said, the markets are here for the long haul (hopefully) :). That's a good shout about spread betting. I'm guessing it is because of capital gains implications with a normal FX account? New ESMA regulations are going to cripple us quite a bit as well due to leverage reduction. In any case, have a great weekend and I look forward to learning from you and making a modest 1-2% a day lol, which I'd be more than happy with, seeing that would equate to £500-£1000 daily!

Grand.

You are correct about the tax implications re spread betting accounts but it's also so, so, much simpler to work with. You simply stipulate the amount per point in cash you want to risk / gain and that's it. No need to faff about with lot size blah blah blah.

I will go into acc size preference later but there are things to bare in mind if you plan to counter but there are a couple of ways to deal with that without having to hold an overlarge bank with one broker.



First and most important question. Are you already profitable with a proven track record. If no then you need to worry about that first. If yes then I would only put in a fraction of your money, lets say $5,000. After a month match what you have earned and just build your account up like that.

And as far as concerning the amount of possible daily gained 1-2% is a good goal to start with and having 5% as a target to reach is also good.

I break down my ES MM like this. I figure a trader will risk 2-5% on a given trade lets say. And on average my stop in the ES is usually 2-3 points but no larger then 5. So I for simplicity sakes say the every point is worth 1%. So making 1-2 points a day (you first goal) is almost no problem. Once you get that I'm sure you will be able to get it up to 5 points a day. I like to aim for a weekly gain of about 30 points a week or 6 a day (I made about 30 points just on Friday and over double that for the week). That gives you a 30% weekly gain and compounded over 2 months adds almost a zero to your account.

Lem changed my trading path by introducing me to the ES and trading shorter term. I wish you the best of luck in your trading endevour.

I personally love the ES


Mr. Hyde,

Based on what TF? Do you guys think max 5 points is a typical stop loss on ES for a day trader? How much does it cost to get into a trade? I am curious about ES. Thanks in advance.

User avatar
LeMercenaire
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:11 am
Reputation: 1257
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby LeMercenaire » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:08 pm

Leoheart wrote:
Mr. Hyde wrote:
LeMercenaire wrote:Grand.

You are correct about the tax implications re spread betting accounts but it's also so, so, much simpler to work with. You simply stipulate the amount per point in cash you want to risk / gain and that's it. No need to faff about with lot size blah blah blah.

I will go into acc size preference later but there are things to bare in mind if you plan to counter but there are a couple of ways to deal with that without having to hold an overlarge bank with one broker.



First and most important question. Are you already profitable with a proven track record. If no then you need to worry about that first. If yes then I would only put in a fraction of your money, lets say $5,000. After a month match what you have earned and just build your account up like that.

And as far as concerning the amount of possible daily gained 1-2% is a good goal to start with and having 5% as a target to reach is also good.

I break down my ES MM like this. I figure a trader will risk 2-5% on a given trade lets say. And on average my stop in the ES is usually 2-3 points but no larger then 5. So I for simplicity sakes say the every point is worth 1%. So making 1-2 points a day (you first goal) is almost no problem. Once you get that I'm sure you will be able to get it up to 5 points a day. I like to aim for a weekly gain of about 30 points a week or 6 a day (I made about 30 points just on Friday and over double that for the week). That gives you a 30% weekly gain and compounded over 2 months adds almost a zero to your account.

Lem changed my trading path by introducing me to the ES and trading shorter term. I wish you the best of luck in your trading endevour.

I personally love the ES


Mr. Hyde,

Based on what TF? Do you guys think max 5 points is a typical stop loss on ES for a day trader? How much does it cost to get into a trade? I am curious about ES. Thanks in advance.


I am going to leave specifics of trading the ES in the US to the US traders here, as the conditions are different - significantly different - when it comes to opening an account. Here in the UK, using a spread-betting account, we can trade it just like any FX pair.

User avatar
LeMercenaire
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:11 am
Reputation: 1257
Gender: None specified

Re: Journey of the ES - Wannalearn12

Postby LeMercenaire » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:42 pm

LeMercenaire wrote:
ia1979 wrote:Hi Lem, hope this finds you well. I have been reading your material here and on FF. It would be an understatement to say you know what you are talking about. I have learnt a lot from you, from TRO and from Too Slow. Thanks for that. I am also based in the UK and thinking about starting to trade SP500 and Dax. You appear to be making 5% a day which is insane so congratulations on that. I am starting out with a capital of around £50k and 5% a day would be out of this world but seems a bit ambitious for me. Also, I would be nervous about putting 50k into a trading account (large moves, spikes, black swan etc scare me). I might leave 30k in my bank account and start trading with only 20k (but trading lot sizes as if I have 50k in my trading account). Is that advisable or not?

I also like the simple trading methods of Buy Zone, and the way you and Wanna started this thread (trading the WZ of the midday candle UK time). Having read the thread, it has evolved a bit. The 500 flip has come into play as well as S+D zones etc. In your experience, do you think Buy Zone and WZ would still work on the SP500 and Dax?

I also like the idea of hedging and have done it in the past (without much success). I always found myself unwinding a short hedge for example (expecting price to move back up) but it just went lower and lower and lower lol. Having read your material, I think I have a better grasp of it now. Must try in demo first though. Say you bought SP500 and price moved to the opposite direction and passed a short trigger, you then put on a short trade as well. Wait for it to decide on its next move. If it goes lower and hits support, close the short in profit and open up another long there. That way price doesn't have to retrace all the way to your original long and you can close the longs at breakeven before that. Is that pretty much the hedging idea? Thanks a lot for your time and sorry for this essay :).


Hi Bud and welcome to The Other Galaxy :D

Glad to have been of some help along the way and it's no worries at all about asking questions, I am happy to answer anything I can help with - however, as your post contains a number of different queries and as we are heading into the weekend, I will take my time and spread out the answers over the next few days and possibly into next week, if that's ok. That way I can give as detailed an answer to each question as you need.

It's all good :D

What I would say to get us started, is that if you are in the UK, I would set up a spread-betting account with your broker, rather than a ''normal'' FX acc.


Right, back on board again - though it's been so slow today, I had to wait till mid arvo to nab my cash off a very sloth-like DAX-Monster. Such is life.

Anyway. A few of the points (mostly concerning the cash-value of your account) have already been touched upon and valid points have been made. I won't go back over them.

I will add my take from my own perspective and you can add that to the mix and make your mind up.

With a £50G bank (not account), then you are giving yourself a significant edge. This does not mean that I would be putting all of that into a trading account. I can only speak as to the way I trade and how I run my set-up.

I do have a base figure of +5% per day. However, this is just a number. There will be days I bag +1% and days it can be ten times that. All from the same set-up, my morning DAX trade. So long as I end the day green, I am happy.

That gives me a cushion and I can then either go on to trade my other overlapping methods through the day in some combination or other. Today, for instance, there was no trigger for my a.m. trade, so I waited till I found a good scalping ground and took two scalp trades there, one too early and one faded into that. Both came good and I got my percents. I could just as easily have walked away completely once I saw how flat the day was looking.

I will aim for +5% on every trade set-up, so if I run my morning Monster, then The Dead Zone, then a 1-2-3 and / or HOLO (or two), then a handful of scalps, then you can see that this all mounts up real quick. I don't usually recalculate my percentages per set-up. I am generally a lazy s**t but I have done so in the past. It is a useful way to supercharge your account if you do it that way.

This now brings us to my specific niche, the counter trade. If you are planning on counter trading, you must leave enough ''spare'' to cover the extra trades that may be needed. Two ways to do this:

1: Have a set amount in the account and then ''split'' it. So for instance have a £5,000 total but run it as if the account is £1,000 size. This means you maintain a better margin in the eyes of the broker as well. Can be useful in all sorts of ways I shouldn't have to go into here. With this, your +5% is +£50 per day.

2: Have your trading account but coupled with a ''fund'' that can top up your account margin should you need it and is used for nothing else. This is easy to do with us spread-betting account holders. Once your trades play out, you withdraw the ''emergency'' addition.

I've used both ways. Use whichever one suits best. Just make sure you can cover the possible counters when you need them.

I run a base £10,000 account, aim for the +5% and withdraw profits through the month, either every week, or every two weeks or every month...whatever. I then return the account to the £10,000 level. The larger amount means I am running #2 easily. If I am looking to fund something specific, then I may leave it in and compound away for the whole month. I kinda' just wing it.

I run a couple of main accounts (sometimes three) and also a couple of smaller ones where I can run through ideas and concepts.

If you have that £50,000 then I'd suggest running it as a £10,000 account with the rest as your floating ''bank''. (Though of course none of this should be taken as financial advice in any way, shape, or form. This is just expanding on my own way of doing things).

As for the other parts of your query, yes, BZ and WZ work perfectly on the 500 and DAX. The only issue you will have is that running BZ as I do, off the day's open (00:00), then (a) spreads will increase and (b) your broker may not even have his DAX desk open at that time of day - which is a pain, as the move you get is often off the first candle or so. Do your homework.

I don't get to The Flip much now, it's just such a weird time to be at the screens. Now, it's just a case of remembering the tendency if you are at the screens but I don't actively look for the set-up now.

There is one point you raise - the psychology of a losing trade - that brings up something interesting that may help. As a pro athlete, first as a placekicker and then a sport-climber, then the idea of losing, was not part of my vocabulary. The whole concept is banished from your mind. You will make every kick...you will red-point every route. Failure is not an option.

In trading, I had to learn to subvert this mind-set, as it is an impossibility. This was the one major hurdle I had to overcome. Not the fear of losing but the actuality.

You will lose trades.

So, sure, I used mental techniques and training to get over this in my trading...and managed it. You have to embrace The Zen of Losing in order to progress. It was always a kind of abstract concept, however.

Then last year sometime, my friend Billy over in The Other Place, made a comment that brought all the abstract into solid form...he announced that he goes into every trade expecting to lose. Expecting...to...lose. Roll that around in your mind for a minute or two. It sounds idiotic and so counter-intuitive but honestly, he nailed it dead centre.

Try it. Write off the trade as you go in. Once you verbalise that, put it out into the universe, it is incredibly freeing. A great weight is lifted off your shoulders. I am sure there is a psychological paper somewhere that covers it all very well! I just know it works.

Anyway. There ya' go. Bet you're sorry you asked now, lol.

Your last paragraph with the example of countering, is pretty much on the money. You really need to run it on demo for as long as it takes to get the technique locked down. It's not something you want to be learning on the job. It must become instinctive, running it without having to think about what happens next if this or that happens.

One final, final, thing. I would caution against treating the DAX and the 500 as one and the same animal. This is far from the case. The 500 is much more manageable and user-friendly in its movements. The DAX, my Monster, is...well...bonkers.

Good luck in your journey. We'll all be here to help if and when we can.

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “TheRumpledOne”