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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:47 pm

newark18 wrote:I averaged in based on H3 CCs. I wonder if I should be waiting until a CC closes above the continuation line.

Image



It would help if you marked out all your average entries as shown in this picture: http://i25.tinypic.com/25fuk94.gif

And learn these:

1 for 4 is 80% RET (add 1u for every 4u owned)

3 for 7 is 70% RET (add 3u for every 7u owned)

2 for 3 is 60% RET (etc)

1 for 1 is 50% RET

3 for 2 is 40% RET

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TygerKrane
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Re: Placing Your Average Line...

Postby TygerKrane » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:09 pm

MightyOne wrote:
TygerKrane wrote:
Humble wrote:
newark18 wrote:I always averaged into my order basically as price was retracing. Do you mean to say that I should first wait for the retracement and average into your order after you think the retracement is complete?


IMHO yes.

"Support is a line which price does not close below." In an up move the retracement should not close below your line. If it does then the line was not support and/or the move down is more than a retracement. Either way why would you still average into a long position.

Thanks newark18, I was on the verge of asking the same question.
[hr]So are we saying, "look to create your Average Line AFTER you think that the retracement has happened?"

I must admit, I had been looking at previous consolidation levels, and placing my order to create the average (based on those previous areas) while price was still on its rise, and then seeing if price would pull back far enough for me to have to close out on the trade. :oops:

I must admit, giving the Price Action the chance form its own retracement {S/R} level FIRST and THEN placing my average line based on that is a lot less stressful.

See my markup of aliassmith's picture as a confirmation of what we should be trying to do then?:

Image


The best way to explain it is that you go back in time and place order at a level where you wish you had entered into the market.
hmmm :-k ...<sigh> :( and there I was thinking my little reply had put the clues together and solved the riddle of the Sphinx.

Guess it's back to page 1 of the thread, since I was able to mess THAT one up somehow.

:-# No talking till I come back wiser, :-#
~Krane

**Krane catches Tyger** !>I'm here to chew bubble gum and make major pips...and I'm all out of bubble gum.<!

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Re: Placing Your Average Line...

Postby Humble » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:03 am

TygerKrane wrote:I must admit, I had been looking at previous consolidation levels, and placing my order to create the average (based on those previous areas) while price was still on its rise, and then seeing if price would pull back far enough for me to have to close out on the trade. :oops:

I must admit, giving the Price Action the chance form its own retracement {S/R} level FIRST and THEN placing my average line based on that is a lot less stressful.

See my markup of aliassmith's picture as a confirmation of what we should be trying to do then?:

Image


Tyger, I know my understanding is suss at times, but I can related to what you have said here. Notwithstanding MO gets his average set very quickly, I like your mark up on the chart.

Looking at it from left to right:
There is an up move including a big memo bar , which as MO says you wish you had been a part of.
There is an 8 to 1 down bar retrace. You would hardly average in during the retrace, how far would it go, where to place the stops. Would it be more than just a retrace on your time frame?
Buying in and averaging in as per your chart looks good to me. You would be watching for resistance towards the high extreme just above the red line and your average price is well below this. In fact your average price lines up with the 50% body range of the original up memo bar, that you may have wished you had been on in the beginning of this chart

ie "The best way to explain it is that you go back in time and place order at a level where you wish you had entered into the market".

I don't see our understanding being at odds with MO's teaching.
HTH
Is price closing higher or lower than something? Simple yet powerful question. ..MO

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Postby spa » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:56 pm

MightyOne wrote: Question:
1. What is the greatest period of time that this extreme represents.

Go look at that TF and get a feel for where you are.

If it was a yearly high then look at the yearly, monthly, weekly, & daily.

What does your smaller TF look like (4, 6, or 8H)?

Now back to your trade TF...

2. What line did price close over or what line should price close over or what line should your average order be under...yeah, that line.

3. What line did price not close under? :shock:

Now that you know where you are and where you are going, you can safely move to where you are trying to get.


rereading the hole thread and just found this right after i closed the short.... todays high is a monthly extreme, could have been good for a lot more
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Postby cwn6161 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:25 pm

I am trying to gain more experience trading the daily, using CC of the H4 (H12) and H1 (H3). I find myself rarely looking at the daily charts, and using the H12 and H3 to find S&R.

What should I be looking for on the daily? I see S&R lines that are basically the same in all 3 time frames.

Is a large CC in the H3 an indication to take profit? Or H12? Or maybe seeing a large candle in all 3 time frames?

Clearly, I haven't gotten used to multiple time frames yet :shock:

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Postby MightyOne » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:12 pm

cwn6161 wrote:I am trying to gain more experience trading the daily, using CC of the H4 (H12) and H1 (H3). I find myself rarely looking at the daily charts, and using the H12 and H3 to find S&R.

What should I be looking for on the daily? I see S&R lines that are basically the same in all 3 time frames.

Is a large CC in the H3 an indication to take profit? Or H12? Or maybe seeing a large candle in all 3 time frames?

Clearly, I haven't gotten used to multiple time frames yet :shock:


Such are the problems you face when you can do whatever you want :lol:

Should I trade off of daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly highs or lows?

Bodies show the way...

-if the daily CC closes above a line then trade off of daily+ lows
-if the weekly CC closes below a line then trade off of weekly+ highs
-by the time you get to the monthly chart you are already trading in the right direction so your only focus is placing more lines if you haven't maxed out already.
-those who have a position of 10:1 from a yearly extreme own an account reset button; it is probable that you will double your account by the end of the year if you just leave the position alone.

You decided that you are going to trade off of the daily low extreme? Not so fast buddy!

If you were short from the highs then where would you have exited?

Would you still be waiting for a long bodied candle?

Would you find a reason to devalue this close over a line based on a higher time frame?

Doing everything to hold your short position, if you would find a reason to hold then you simply cannot go long :shock:

Every thing looks good so far and you are ready to go long right?
Not so fast buddy!

What kind of distance can you expect from this trade?

What will your position look like if it closes here or here or here?

Is it probable that price will close over a line on the weekly chart?

How much distance could you possibly get out of this trade?

Will you have position on a monthly or yearly chart?

...ok so you think that you are ready to go long so let us look at the hourly chart?

What does the recent PA look like?

If you attempted to trade off of the previous extremes did price send Wick Dolls your way? Do you need to be more cautious or is the PA trendy?

Should you enter with 5:1 and a 90 pip pincushion or 10:1 with a 45 pip pincushion as your first trade? Where is the first line that price must close over to say that you are wrong and how large are the bodies of the recently closed candles?

You are done asking questions, you know where you are and where you are going, but before you go long there is one last thing you must do:

-Delete any line that represents resistance

You have already decided that price is going to close higher & higher & possibly much higher.

-Focus on support lines and placing average entries at or under them.

Accumulate questions as you reach greater and greater distances so that you can better plan such a run the next time around.

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Postby cwn6161 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

MightyOne wrote:
cwn6161 wrote:I am trying to gain more experience trading the daily, using CC of the H4 (H12) and H1 (H3). I find myself rarely looking at the daily charts, and using the H12 and H3 to find S&R.

What should I be looking for on the daily? I see S&R lines that are basically the same in all 3 time frames.

Is a large CC in the H3 an indication to take profit? Or H12? Or maybe seeing a large candle in all 3 time frames?

Clearly, I haven't gotten used to multiple time frames yet :shock:


Such are the problems you face when you can do whatever you want :lol:

Should I trade off of daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly highs or lows?

Bodies show the way...

-if the daily CC closes above a line then trade off of daily+ lows
-if the weekly CC closes below a line then trade off of weekly+ highs
-by the time you get to the monthly chart you are already trading in the right direction so your only focus is placing more lines if you haven't maxed out already.
-those who have a position of 10:1 from a yearly extreme own an account reset button; it is probable that you will double your account by the end of the year if you just leave the position alone.

You decided that you are going to trade off of the daily low extreme? Not so fast buddy!

If you were short from the highs then where would you have exited?

Would you still be waiting for a long bodied candle?

Would you find a reason to devalue this close over a line based on a higher time frame?

Doing everything to hold your short position, if you would find a reason to hold then you simply cannot go long :shock:

Every thing looks good so far and you are ready to go long right?
Not so fast buddy!

What kind of distance can you expect from this trade?

What will your position look like if it closes here or here or here?

Is it probable that price will close over a line on the weekly chart?

How much distance could you possibly get out of this trade?

Will you have position on a monthly or yearly chart?

...ok so you think that you are ready to go long so let us look at the hourly chart?

What does the recent PA look like?

If you attempted to trade off of the previous extremes did price send Wick Dolls your way? Do you need to be more cautious or is the PA trendy?

Should you enter with 5:1 and a 90 pip pincushion or 10:1 with a 45 pip pincushion as your first trade? Where is the first line that price must close over to say that you are wrong and how large are the bodies of the recently closed candles?

You are done asking questions, you know where you are and where you are going, but before you go long there is one last thing you must do:

-Delete any line that represents resistance

You have already decided that price is going to close higher & higher & possibly much higher.

-Focus on support lines and placing average entries at or under them.

Accumulate questions as you reach greater and greater distances so that you can better plan such a run the next time around.


To continue off of this then - if you see a support line not held by a CC (no longer support), would that be a good time to take everything off, or just the last addition to the trade?

I suppose it depends on the time frame you plan on being in. You're right MO, planning the trade has become far far more important.

Thank you for answering btw, that's a good checklist to go through as you plan a trade.

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Postby MightyOne » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:46 am

cwn6161 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
cwn6161 wrote:I am trying to gain more experience trading the daily, using CC of the H4 (H12) and H1 (H3). I find myself rarely looking at the daily charts, and using the H12 and H3 to find S&R.

What should I be looking for on the daily? I see S&R lines that are basically the same in all 3 time frames.

Is a large CC in the H3 an indication to take profit? Or H12? Or maybe seeing a large candle in all 3 time frames?

Clearly, I haven't gotten used to multiple time frames yet :shock:


Such are the problems you face when you can do whatever you want :lol:

Should I trade off of daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly highs or lows?

Bodies show the way...

-if the daily CC closes above a line then trade off of daily+ lows
-if the weekly CC closes below a line then trade off of weekly+ highs
-by the time you get to the monthly chart you are already trading in the right direction so your only focus is placing more lines if you haven't maxed out already.
-those who have a position of 10:1 from a yearly extreme own an account reset button; it is probable that you will double your account by the end of the year if you just leave the position alone.

You decided that you are going to trade off of the daily low extreme? Not so fast buddy!

If you were short from the highs then where would you have exited?

Would you still be waiting for a long bodied candle?

Would you find a reason to devalue this close over a line based on a higher time frame?

Doing everything to hold your short position, if you would find a reason to hold then you simply cannot go long :shock:

Every thing looks good so far and you are ready to go long right?
Not so fast buddy!

What kind of distance can you expect from this trade?

What will your position look like if it closes here or here or here?

Is it probable that price will close over a line on the weekly chart?

How much distance could you possibly get out of this trade?

Will you have position on a monthly or yearly chart?

...ok so you think that you are ready to go long so let us look at the hourly chart?

What does the recent PA look like?

If you attempted to trade off of the previous extremes did price send Wick Dolls your way? Do you need to be more cautious or is the PA trendy?

Should you enter with 5:1 and a 90 pip pincushion or 10:1 with a 45 pip pincushion as your first trade? Where is the first line that price must close over to say that you are wrong and how large are the bodies of the recently closed candles?

You are done asking questions, you know where you are and where you are going, but before you go long there is one last thing you must do:

-Delete any line that represents resistance

You have already decided that price is going to close higher & higher & possibly much higher.

-Focus on support lines and placing average entries at or under them.

Accumulate questions as you reach greater and greater distances so that you can better plan such a run the next time around.


To continue off of this then - if you see a support line not held by a CC (no longer support), would that be a good time to take everything off, or just the last addition to the trade?

I suppose it depends on the time frame you plan on being in. You're right MO, planning the trade has become far far more important.

Thank you for answering btw, that's a good checklist to go through as you plan a trade.


There are only 3 places that I will exit a trade:

1. The highest close.

For whatever reason, I believe the price moved too far too fast and it is unlikely that price will make an even higher high.

2. The highest high

Not giving the money back is how you keep it ;)

This is technically 1 but...

3. A close above the highest high.

I want to exit but the price action has been extremely trendy so I will see if I can get a close above the highest high.

Look at the previous PA for bodies that that stand out as being large compared to the surrounding bodies and wait for a similar body before choosing exit method 1, 2, or 3.

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Postby cwn6161 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:12 pm

MightyOne wrote:
cwn6161 wrote:
MightyOne wrote:
cwn6161 wrote:I am trying to gain more experience trading the daily, using CC of the H4 (H12) and H1 (H3). I find myself rarely looking at the daily charts, and using the H12 and H3 to find S&R.

What should I be looking for on the daily? I see S&R lines that are basically the same in all 3 time frames.

Is a large CC in the H3 an indication to take profit? Or H12? Or maybe seeing a large candle in all 3 time frames?

Clearly, I haven't gotten used to multiple time frames yet :shock:


Such are the problems you face when you can do whatever you want :lol:

Should I trade off of daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly highs or lows?

Bodies show the way...

-if the daily CC closes above a line then trade off of daily+ lows
-if the weekly CC closes below a line then trade off of weekly+ highs
-by the time you get to the monthly chart you are already trading in the right direction so your only focus is placing more lines if you haven't maxed out already.
-those who have a position of 10:1 from a yearly extreme own an account reset button; it is probable that you will double your account by the end of the year if you just leave the position alone.

You decided that you are going to trade off of the daily low extreme? Not so fast buddy!

If you were short from the highs then where would you have exited?

Would you still be waiting for a long bodied candle?

Would you find a reason to devalue this close over a line based on a higher time frame?

Doing everything to hold your short position, if you would find a reason to hold then you simply cannot go long :shock:

Every thing looks good so far and you are ready to go long right?
Not so fast buddy!

What kind of distance can you expect from this trade?

What will your position look like if it closes here or here or here?

Is it probable that price will close over a line on the weekly chart?

How much distance could you possibly get out of this trade?

Will you have position on a monthly or yearly chart?

...ok so you think that you are ready to go long so let us look at the hourly chart?

What does the recent PA look like?

If you attempted to trade off of the previous extremes did price send Wick Dolls your way? Do you need to be more cautious or is the PA trendy?

Should you enter with 5:1 and a 90 pip pincushion or 10:1 with a 45 pip pincushion as your first trade? Where is the first line that price must close over to say that you are wrong and how large are the bodies of the recently closed candles?

You are done asking questions, you know where you are and where you are going, but before you go long there is one last thing you must do:

-Delete any line that represents resistance

You have already decided that price is going to close higher & higher & possibly much higher.

-Focus on support lines and placing average entries at or under them.

Accumulate questions as you reach greater and greater distances so that you can better plan such a run the next time around.


To continue off of this then - if you see a support line not held by a CC (no longer support), would that be a good time to take everything off, or just the last addition to the trade?

I suppose it depends on the time frame you plan on being in. You're right MO, planning the trade has become far far more important.

Thank you for answering btw, that's a good checklist to go through as you plan a trade.


There are only 3 places that I will exit a trade:

1. The highest close.

For whatever reason, I believe the price moved too far too fast and it is unlikely that price will make an even higher high.

2. The highest high

Not giving the money back is how you keep it ;)

This is technically 1 but...

3. A close above the highest high.

I want to exit but the price action has been extremely trendy so I will see if I can get a close above the highest high.

Look at the previous PA for bodies that that stand out as being large compared to the surrounding bodies and wait for a similar body before choosing exit method 1, 2, or 3.


Let's see here...forgive me of the poor entry and SL. The blue bar is my average, just above what I think to be support. Thumbs up are the bars I entered on.

Image

1) lowest close on chart has not yet happened (on the H1 (H3) chart, this is the lowest low however)

2)again, hasn't happened (with exception to a smaller time frame)

3)compared to previous bars, the current one isn't much much larger. i am going to wait for the bar to close to see if support (lowest red line) is held

This is very exciting/nerve-wracking. I knew where I was, where I wanted to go...and there I went.

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Postby newark18 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:03 pm

I am still in this trade from a few days ago. So far up 209 pips at 2Us. I averaged into my position after I thought retracement was done. However, I doubled up my position when price allowed me double up and keep my S&R line below the retracement level (used h3CCs to double up). I did not use MO's most recent thoughts on adding positions. I missed opportunities to increase my position because i was either sleeping, working or playing with my kids. Now I need to think about where I want to exit.

Image
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