2009.09.10 DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT

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Postby Pro Trader » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:07 pm

Gangsta

SL is 10 pips for me as in the TRO rules and I do just try to take profit when I can. This week sometimes it's been even 2-3 pips at a time. Is small but its still a loss. I used the little rules that TRO suggested to "protect Me from Me". A few times price went up 6 pips then started to come back down to say 4 or 3. I would take the profit there and then. Often price shot up after I got out but thats part of trading. I'd just look for the next setup. I no well all want our 10 pips plus etc but fact is we don't know what the market will do next. Maybe more experienced traders may hang on a little more but for me. I'll take my small profits.

I wasn't aware of the long above W1 and short below W1 bias. I can see how it would be sensible. However I have been green rat trading without it and it seems to work just fine. I don't think TRO uses that bias looking at some of the posts. Maybe he does and can correct me.

Happy trading to all

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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:22 pm

Q)After placing your buy order at the green candle high. How long would you keep this pending order active?

A) Until triggered or another rat reversal started

Q) I know this is way too much asking but if another Green Rat Trade Reversal setup at a lower price is found before the first one is triggered, would you keep the original pending order?

A) No. You take the most recent Green Rat Trade Reversal setup and cancel the previous one. It wasn't asking way too much.
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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:25 pm

gangsta1 wrote:
TheRumpledOne wrote:DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT

http://kreslik.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25593#25593

1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.


Of course I have read that a thousand times TRO. I was looking for something more detailed like what you posted a while back:

I know the feeling.

What I do is protect ME from ME.

AT +5 pips, I will be ready to bail at +3 if price pulls back.

At +10 pips, I will enter a trailing stop of 4 or 5 pips.

**At +15, I will cancel the trailing stop and enter a hard stop at +10.

**Then I will move the hard stop up if price moves up.

At +25, I may move the hard stop up to +25 or to a price ending in 0 or 9.

Sometimes, I may exit 1/2 of my position at +20 to lock in a 1% gain.

The idea is to be CONSISTENT. You'll miss out sometimes, but you only need ONE big run and you are done for the day.

Remember, the daily goal is 2% or more and DO NOT OVER TRADE.


The problem I have is getting stopped out 3 times in a row (-30) and then taking what I can (+5pips) leaving me down 25 for the day and with a VERY POOR risk:ratio.

I am sure I am not the only green rat who gets stopped out VERY OFTEN chasing the daily low?


Quit chasing.

If you are losing on M5, then move up to M15. It will take longer for the trade to develop. Or wait for H1 to close and then begin trading again.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:28 pm

gangsta1 wrote:
capsmart wrote:gangsta
Of course there is no way to know in advance that you are at the daily low or high, but there are some things that you can observe.
First is the daily range. TRO has designed an indicator TRO_TRADE_LINES that shows the open of the day +/- the ATR.
So this is an area that price could reverse.
The same indicator shows the low/high of the week and the low/high of the previous day. This is another area.
And of course if we wait in a downtrend for the first green candle to close, mark the high of the green bar and enter long after the green candle closes.
The semaphores add an additional confirmation for a reversal.
One more thing. If price (like the last days) is in strong trends trying to trade reversals is more dangerous. In more "normal" days price will meander from high to low and in this case trading with the Daily and Weekly trend is safer.


Thanks for the info!

I am surprised that rev8 was updated as it seemed to be such a good system according to many and TRO himself. I use rev8 with a 10 pip trigger on non-breakout m15 candles with decent results. Infact, many of the trades I take are also triggered on rev9 as rat trades. Would be interesting to know why TRO changed the system.


Rev 9 is based on daily low. Rev 8 and lower were based on Dynamic Support/Resistance. Both are profitable.

Rev 9 is more in line with trading like a RAT.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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Re: Some more statistics

Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:35 pm

The question is how do we know that we are at the bottom (or top) so that we take advantage of this wick or tale?

You only know AT THE TIME. Yes, price could move lower and that is what the stop loss is for - TO STOP THE LOSS. This is trading and ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

The rat ALWAYS turned left and got cheese 60% of the time.

You have to be patient. If price is going down, then wait until you see price going up. That is what the rat reversal trigger does. Many times price will go up 30 or 40 pips from the low, turn around and make a new low. That is why you "take profit when you can".

If you want to swing trade and go for the bigger pips, then use D1 with a low + 50 pip trigger.
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Postby gangsta1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:50 pm

TRO what is the name of the indicator that shows the h1 candle color overlayed on the m5?

The problem I have with the Rat method is the stop loss of 10 pips could lead to a drawdown that would be hard to recover when attempting to "Take what you can". The risk:reward ratio seems very off and would require a superb winning percentage.

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Postby gangsta1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:52 pm

TheRumpledOne wrote:
gangsta1 wrote:
capsmart wrote:gangsta
Of course there is no way to know in advance that you are at the daily low or high, but there are some things that you can observe.
First is the daily range. TRO has designed an indicator TRO_TRADE_LINES that shows the open of the day +/- the ATR.
So this is an area that price could reverse.
The same indicator shows the low/high of the week and the low/high of the previous day. This is another area.
And of course if we wait in a downtrend for the first green candle to close, mark the high of the green bar and enter long after the green candle closes.
The semaphores add an additional confirmation for a reversal.
One more thing. If price (like the last days) is in strong trends trying to trade reversals is more dangerous. In more "normal" days price will meander from high to low and in this case trading with the Daily and Weekly trend is safer.


Thanks for the info!

I am surprised that rev8 was updated as it seemed to be such a good system according to many and TRO himself. I use rev8 with a 10 pip trigger on non-breakout m15 candles with decent results. Infact, many of the trades I take are also triggered on rev9 as rat trades. Would be interesting to know why TRO changed the system.


Rev 9 is based on daily low. Rev 8 and lower were based on Dynamic Support/Resistance. Both are profitable.

Rev 9 is more in line with trading like a RAT.


Tro on Rev8 what trigger (5 or 10 pips or sweet spot)would you use when trading reversals on non breakout m15 triggers? I have also seen good m15 reversals occur when the h1 does not have a semafor, do you ever take these?

IS THE STOP LOSS 10 PIPS FOR REV8 ALSO? It seems to me like the stop loss should be if the reversal turns back and breaks s/r thus being 5 pips when using a 5 pip trigger or 10 pips when using a 10 pip trigger.
Last edited by gangsta1 on Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby gangsta1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:59 pm

Pro Trader wrote:Gangsta

SL is 10 pips for me as in the TRO rules and I do just try to take profit when I can. This week sometimes it's been even 2-3 pips at a time. Is small but its still a loss. I used the little rules that TRO suggested to "protect Me from Me". A few times price went up 6 pips then started to come back down to say 4 or 3. I would take the profit there and then. Often price shot up after I got out but thats part of trading. I'd just look for the next setup. I no well all want our 10 pips plus etc but fact is we don't know what the market will do next. Maybe more experienced traders may hang on a little more but for me. I'll take my small profits.

I wasn't aware of the long above W1 and short below W1 bias. I can see how it would be sensible. However I have been green rat trading without it and it seems to work just fine. I don't think TRO uses that bias looking at some of the posts. Maybe he does and can correct me.

Happy trading to all


Thanks for the info.

The problem is that a few losses can be very hard to recover from when taking what we can o profitable trades. Perhaps a better option would be to set a break even after 5+ pips and try to catch a runner that will make up for the losses.

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Postby TheRumpledOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:40 pm

gangsta1 wrote:
TheRumpledOne wrote:
gangsta1 wrote:
capsmart wrote:gangsta
Of course there is no way to know in advance that you are at the daily low or high, but there are some things that you can observe.
First is the daily range. TRO has designed an indicator TRO_TRADE_LINES that shows the open of the day +/- the ATR.
So this is an area that price could reverse.
The same indicator shows the low/high of the week and the low/high of the previous day. This is another area.
And of course if we wait in a downtrend for the first green candle to close, mark the high of the green bar and enter long after the green candle closes.
The semaphores add an additional confirmation for a reversal.
One more thing. If price (like the last days) is in strong trends trying to trade reversals is more dangerous. In more "normal" days price will meander from high to low and in this case trading with the Daily and Weekly trend is safer.


Thanks for the info!

I am surprised that rev8 was updated as it seemed to be such a good system according to many and TRO himself. I use rev8 with a 10 pip trigger on non-breakout m15 candles with decent results. Infact, many of the trades I take are also triggered on rev9 as rat trades. Would be interesting to know why TRO changed the system.


Rev 9 is based on daily low. Rev 8 and lower were based on Dynamic Support/Resistance. Both are profitable.

Rev 9 is more in line with trading like a RAT.


Tro on Rev8 what trigger (5 or 10 pips or sweet spot)would you use when trading reversals on non breakout m15 triggers? I have also seen good m15 reversals occur when the h1 does not have a semafor, do you ever take these?

IS THE STOP LOSS 10 PIPS FOR REV8 ALSO? It seems to me like the stop loss should be if the reversal turns back and breaks s/r thus being 5 pips when using a 5 pip trigger or 10 pips when using a 10 pip trigger.


If you are trading Rev 8, then follow the Rev 8 rules.

This is the DRAIN THE BANKS - LIKE A RAT thread.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



Please do NOT PM me with trading or coding questions, post them in a thread.

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Postby Pro Trader » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:53 pm

Gangsta in my last post I said "This week sometimes it's been even 2-3 pips at a time. Is small but its still a loss" It should have said profit.

I know what you mean about the little profits. I had a big win this past week and a few small wins and only got stopped out twice so overall this week Im up using DTB. I trade this and buyzone. At the moment I cant make my mind up which one to trade so Im using both.

I have a BZ indicator on a 5m chart and the DTB setup is easy to see so at the moment I trade which ever I see first. I know I should stick to one system but I havent decided which one yet as both are profitable. Had a few profits on the BZ this week.

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