Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

free & uncensored discussion arena for TheRumpledOne

Moderator: moderators

User avatar
Don_xyZ
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:15 am
Reputation: 342
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Don_xyZ » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:06 am

Jhx wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
Jhx wrote:
Yeah, I have gone in and out of the rabbit hole more times than I wanted by now . When gathering stats for my trades I was hesitant to add or remove stuff from the list because I didn't know what would be useful and what wouldn't, to be fair I'm probably gathering more stats than I need :roll: .

But I agree there's a point where it becomes a useless dead-end, because there's no one-size-fits-all. This last happened when I was looking into my trailing stops, but concluded there's no way to pick a 'better' trailing stop without curve fitting. Decided, instead, to just trail it like this (moving up a distance of 0.5R every 0.5R after moving to BE) and let the market decide my luck.

This is why I asked in one of my previous posts how much of trade management is related to psychology vs actually better actions (performance-wise).


There are many paths. There are even less paths that fit you. For sure there isn't one size fits all.

There is a lot of mental that is involved.

As I pointed out before specializing in 1 edge is best chance of success mentally and with outcome.


So far this is the most dedicated I've been with a method, both in terms of sitting my a$$ every day of the week for 5 hours and then some more time logging everything to my journal. Well I don't really know if it's a method in itself because this whole thing just came up off Don's posts and merged it with the deadhorse's SMA, though I have my checklist for entering so there's that.

Never thought too much about edge other than the thing that gives you an advantage over the house :lol: .

In your opinion, what does an edge consist of? Is it an event in particular that one tries to take advantage of, or is it the strategy as a whole (entry method and trade management)? I might've seen the words method, edge, strategy, and system used interchangeably by some people in the past, but I'm pretty sure they represent different things.
,

There is a very strong reason why me and Alias kept repeating "1 method, 1 pair, 1 session". What you are doing is essentially trying to combine mine with Alias in the hope to get the best of both worlds. This is, IMHO, your biggest mistake. My style didn't use MA because it relies on patterns (a whole lot of them as I already clearly defined) and also multi tf. Alias' Deadhorse has its own set of requirements. I'm not bothered if I have to sacrifice a few losses here and there because I also operate using 2 tactics, scalping and anchor trade. Alias' on the other hand excels in his high win rate. Trying to do both defeats the thing me and Alias reminded you of because you have no one to guide you in that path. At this point, you're going to be the master of that style but it will require a lot of time, energy and money. I don't know how many years exactly Alias spent in perfecting his strategy but I spent a lot of time thickening my WIL and perfecting mine. Also, I see you're trying to incorporate IgazI's stuff (correct me if I'm wrong).

So the questions are:

What is your short term (now) goal?

Is it to create your own trading strategy?
Or to make money ASAP?

And then align all of your effort accordingly.

I know at some point I said "make it your own" but what I meant was in the vicinity of the respective method that you are using, not trying to combine them.

I'm all about saving time and make more money so take this as me trying to save you the headaches of losing your time and money.
Do you trade money for time or time for money?

All relevant links in my thread:
post148989#p148989

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
aliassmith
rank: 1000+ posts
rank: 1000+ posts
Posts: 4231
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:50 pm
Reputation: 2110
Gender: Male

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby aliassmith » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:20 am

X
Trade Your Way as Long as It Makes Money!
Maximum Size for Maximum Rides$$$ :shock:

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:59 am

Don_xyZ wrote:
Jhx wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
There are many paths. There are even less paths that fit you. For sure there isn't one size fits all.

There is a lot of mental that is involved.

As I pointed out before specializing in 1 edge is best chance of success mentally and with outcome.


So far this is the most dedicated I've been with a method, both in terms of sitting my a$$ every day of the week for 5 hours and then some more time logging everything to my journal. Well I don't really know if it's a method in itself because this whole thing just came up off Don's posts and merged it with the deadhorse's SMA, though I have my checklist for entering so there's that.

Never thought too much about edge other than the thing that gives you an advantage over the house :lol: .

In your opinion, what does an edge consist of? Is it an event in particular that one tries to take advantage of, or is it the strategy as a whole (entry method and trade management)? I might've seen the words method, edge, strategy, and system used interchangeably by some people in the past, but I'm pretty sure they represent different things.
,

There is a very strong reason why me and Alias kept repeating "1 method, 1 pair, 1 session". What you are doing is essentially trying to combine mine with Alias in the hope to get the best of both worlds. This is, IMHO, your biggest mistake. My style didn't use MA because it relies on patterns (a whole lot of them as I already clearly defined) and also multi tf. Alias' Deadhorse has its own set of requirements. I'm not bothered if I have to sacrifice a few losses here and there because I also operate using 2 tactics, scalping and anchor trade. Alias' on the other hand excels in his high win rate. Trying to do both defeats the thing me and Alias reminded you of because you have no one to guide you in that path. At this point, you're going to be the master of that style but it will require a lot of time, energy and money. I don't know how many years exactly Alias spent in perfecting his strategy but I spent a lot of time thickening my WIL and perfecting mine. Also, I see you're trying to incorporate IgazI's stuff (correct me if I'm wrong).

So the questions are:

What is your short term (now) goal?

Is it to create your own trading strategy?
Or to make money ASAP?

And then align all of your effort accordingly.

I know at some point I said "make it your own" but what I meant was in the vicinity of the respective method that you are using, not trying to combine them.

I'm all about saving time and make more money so take this as me trying to save you the headaches of losing your time and money.


I'm going to reply this in two posts to organize it a bit better. This first one is a recap of this whole thing.

There is a very strong reason why me and Alias kept repeating "1 method, 1 pair, 1 session". What you are doing is essentially trying to combine mine with Alias in the hope to get the best of both worlds. This is, IMHO, your biggest mistake.

Just want to mention that I'm not doing it this way in the hope to get the best of both worlds (although I admit it might look like it); it was always about trying to find a way to scalp that made sense to me.

A recap:

If I go way way back to the beginning of the thread, it all started with me just picking a method to be able to scalp for about 4-5 hours every morning. Before that the plan was going to longer term stuff (and I really mean longer longer term, due to lack of time), but I could work around some stuff that made me have these hours so I tried to get the most out of them.

So at first I picked one of TRO's method with the 3LZZ scalping reversals. I had a general sense of how the entry looked like, but as always, my trade management was poor because of my inability to read price.

Then alias suggested I traded only with the SMA, which I thought why not, the charts looked simple and clean.

Then I found out there were multiple entries, which is ok, but I was drowning with trying to do them all at once.

Then I read something about studying the entries and picking one; so I picked the one that made sense to me to enter on pullbacks after individual momentum candles (zlines with limit orders); to see how they worked out I backtested this on 100 sessions, but again I was really just looking at the entries and outcomes. It was very mechanical and didn't account for much that was happening on the chart; and that was evident when I then attempted it to trade them as I was making mistakes that I didn't understand because the entry wasn't really the problem, clearly. Again I was failing to read price.

Then I saw some posts from Igazi about patterns and breakouts which I tried to get but was just as lost.

Then you mentioned the whole pattern thing of breakout lines, patterns forming to fail and morphing and whatnot, which at first I was a bit skeptical because I didn't think it'd suit me, but in all fairness is the closest that I've been to actually follow how price moves. Then what Igazi said made sense and I started to see that idea on the charts.

And then you mentioned something that made complete sense to me and it's kind of what I've been and I'm doing now, which is making use of the continuations patterns (at the break or while it's happening; I'm doing the break) after a reversal pattern appears.

I've been also gathering lots and lots of stats of this pattern (most lead to inconclusive results, but that's because I'm logging more than I need).

Now, I couldn't just trade that pattern 'blindly' every time it happens because it wouldn't work (I tried lol). I was also getting stopped because I was getting in too quick with very tight stops, I was waiting for a pullback within the same M5 candle and getting stopped out a lot, that's why I switched to using the M1 with the M5 overlays to see if there's anything I was missing in there. It helped in some situations.

After getting my ass handed a few days I noticed -again- that I was trading too 'mechanically'. So I tried to check if there's anything I was missing. From the stats I took, the only 'relevant' ones were that:
1) when the pullback goes way past the 1st breakout line, the continuation is very weak and is usually a loss if a take the next break.
2) if the trade goes against 60-70% (when applying the above rule), it will go to the full stop (length of the pullback).
That next part came along because I was trying to reduce my losing trades (to attempt to up the winrate, obviously).

But then I also noticed that I wasn't really looking for context of the trades. For example, since the pattern takes some time to happen, by the time it happens I might be near a wall that I didn't account for, price stops there and goes back. So this last thing I added was to not trade into a wall, nothing else.

Regarding the HTF stuff:

I can sometimes see a larger pattern forming with this same idea and they can work, but it can take days to appear and more than a few hours to trade it that might not be the hours that I'm available to trade, specially if I only focus on one pair, so the focus is still on scalping. It happens way more often than not that the larger pattern (H1+) is in the middle of nowhere by the time I start my session. I don't know if there's a way to get larger R off these sessions consistently, other than attempting to enter at the extremes of the pullbacks and see if it 'completes' the whole continuation pattern. Or maybe I'm missing something.

Also, I see you're trying to incorporate IgazI's stuff (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think so, I'm just using bar charts because they looked easier on my eyes. Tbf I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for the past 3 weeks.

Next part in the next post :)
Last edited by Jhx on Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:25 am, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:17 am

Don_xyZ wrote:
So the questions are:

What is your short term (now) goal?

Is it to create your own trading strategy?
Or to make money ASAP?

And then align all of your effort accordingly.

I know at some point I said "make it your own" but what I meant was in the vicinity of the respective method that you are using, not trying to combine them.

I'm all about saving time and make more money so take this as me trying to save you the headaches of losing your time and money.



Ok, second part.

Don_xyZ wrote:
So the questions are:

What is your short term (now) goal?


My short term goal is going over a threshold to pass these prop challenges consistently and confidently. This is my current focus. I failed the last FTMO trial (I mean the free trial, not the challenge), by 0.8% off the profit target. This week I'm slightly below B/E. Now that brings the question whether my scalps aren't working or if I need more time to fix stuff and learn.

Don_xyZ wrote:Is it to create your own trading strategy?
Or to make money ASAP?

#2, definitely. I'm not trying to create my own trading strategy from scratch. Thing is, there are always missing wholes in every method that needs to be filled out. If I see I'm failing to do something or not accounting for something in my trades, does trying to find a way to fix that mean that I'm altering a method? When exiting for smaller losses, picking targets, knowing when not to take trades, is that part of the method or is it not? Because that's what makes the differences I think. Honest questions here.
But yeah, still #2, just want to clarify that :lol:

And then align all of your effort accordingly.

I'm trying in the best way that I can. And I'm as diligent as I can with this. But when I get too deep into something there's the possibility that I'm putting my head 8 meters into the ground. So as always open to suggestions.

I'm all about saving time and make more money so take this as me trying to save you the headaches of losing your time and money.

So what approach would you suggest me to take? (While keeping the 1 session 1 pair 1 method within these 4-5 hours in NY session)

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:31 am

Don_xyZ wrote:I'm not bothered if I have to sacrifice a few losses here and there because I also operate using 2 tactics, scalping and anchor trade.

I also forgot to reply to this part, but it's very important. I've noticed (through trial and error of course), that I'm mentally much, much comfortable taking several smaller losers and sacrificing winrate for larger R. Maybe I'm forcing a trade management that goes against my 'nature'.

But I wouldn't know how to improve on that given that these trades are very short term (due to the amount of time I have to trade).

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.

User avatar
Don_xyZ
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:15 am
Reputation: 342
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Don_xyZ » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:23 am

After writing my post I realized one thing, I never give any good example of breakout trading. Well, I just did and you can check the ideas (6 presented) if you feel it's necessary.

About HTF, one of the reasons why I have scalp and anchor trade is because of what you said, it takes time for a pattern to appear on the H1+. There are days when the anchor trade gets destroyed and only to start a new and then complete during the time I'm asleep. Scalp trades does the job during these times.

My point with the questions is you can't do both at the same time. It takes time to master one trading strategy and it takes even more time to make one (even if you don't do it from scratch). But if you want to make money ASAP then you have to put aside the idea of making your own and focus on mastering the existing ones. I support anyone who's trying to make their own trading strategy because it's the best but also the toughest road to take but I'm also positive everyone on Kreslik is more than willing to help :)
Do you trade money for time or time for money?

All relevant links in my thread:
post148989#p148989

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:29 pm

Don_xyZ wrote:After writing my post I realized one thing, I never give any good example of breakout trading. Well, I just did and you can check the ideas (6 presented) if you feel it's necessary.

About HTF, one of the reasons why I have scalp and anchor trade is because of what you said, it takes time for a pattern to appear on the H1+. There are days when the anchor trade gets destroyed and only to start a new and then complete during the time I'm asleep. Scalp trades does the job during these times.

My point with the questions is you can't do both at the same time. It takes time to master one trading strategy and it takes even more time to make one (even if you don't do it from scratch). But if you want to make money ASAP then you have to put aside the idea of making your own and focus on mastering the existing ones. I support anyone who's trying to make their own trading strategy because it's the best but also the toughest road to take but I'm also positive everyone on Kreslik is more than willing to help :)


Really thought about this and I'll take your advice, I'll have to dial back up a bit on this off my own stuff.

The thing about that is that is puts me back on square one, no? Well if I really think about it I did improve (from a consistent losing scalper to more of a B/E type or slightly above with some luck), had a few positive mind shifts and my trading 'awareness' has also improved, so I don't think it's square one :lol: .

The 'cons' side of this is that I've now been looking at these charts so much in this way that there are certain things that my eyes kind of look for, which might not be entirely bad but maybe detrimental if I apply it to whichever other method I'm using. Things like looking for swings going higher or lower than the previous, price ranging and not going anywhere, and swings extremes to avoid trading into them (both LTF and HTF), but at the same time, maybe this are more general price action stuff that does still apply to every method and was good learning.

I'll do some brain recalibrating this weekend :lol:.

And lastly, maybe asking for too much but since I already have you here so I'll take the shot. In the spirit of 1) not overcomplicating my trading and 2) dial back on my stuff and master an existing method, knowing that you still know how to scalp, could you throw me a bone on one strategy you use with one entry method so that I could master it? I say this last part because as you mentioned, if I'm using too much of my own stuff it's difficult for others to really give me pointers since it's not really how they're doing it (and for some reason I have an easier time understanding they way you post stuff, don't really know why). And as always thanks Don! Truly you're helping me lots in my trading :D

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:53 pm

This is what I mean when I said that I now read the chart in a certain way. I only took that short that stopped me out at 0.7R as I wanted to see if it went back down to that area, which it did a few minutes after. But ignore that. In the move up I didn't like the wicks so I took none.

So I see price going down and down, and it stops at a low from one month ago and there's a reaction around there.
Then it stops to a recent high in the chart, and back down to the HTF area.
Then up again, breaks it, retests, gets really close to a resistance area from 2 hours ago, then back down all the way to that HTF resistance.

I'm being too aware of these areas and they might prevent me to take trades towards them, but maybe it's not a bad thing, because regardless of the method of entry price might stop there. So I don't know if this will be a good or bad habit for whichever entry I choose.

GU_08192022.png
GU_08192022.png (128.7 KiB) Viewed 702 times

GU_08192022_HTF_Context.png
GU_08192022_HTF_Context.png (78.68 KiB) Viewed 702 times

User avatar
Jhx
rank: 150+ posts
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am
Reputation: 155
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Jhx » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:09 pm

Since I'll be dialing back on my stuff starting next week (still need to see exactly what I'll do), I just took the liberty of trading outside the trial on another account, using zones (it's still the last 'move' of the pattern, trading the break).

The big blue box is the same H4 support in the previous chart, so that was pretty much the bias long on that area and above, until the magenta one. I just drew zones or lines on swings, and waited for price to break or come back, retest, and trade the break. 1 loser, 1 BE, 1 skipped trade because it was too small to take, and 4 winners for slightly above 1R.

Gray boxes and lines are the ones that broke. The colored ones held. After being broken they can also be used for the same idea.

GU_08192022_3.png
GU_08192022_3.png (119.51 KiB) Viewed 657 times

User avatar
Don_xyZ
rank: 500+ posts
rank: 500+ posts
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:15 am
Reputation: 342
Gender: None specified

Re: Scalping: 3LZZ DSR

Postby Don_xyZ » Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:28 am

Jhx wrote:
Don_xyZ wrote:After writing my post I realized one thing, I never give any good example of breakout trading. Well, I just did and you can check the ideas (6 presented) if you feel it's necessary.

About HTF, one of the reasons why I have scalp and anchor trade is because of what you said, it takes time for a pattern to appear on the H1+. There are days when the anchor trade gets destroyed and only to start a new and then complete during the time I'm asleep. Scalp trades does the job during these times.

My point with the questions is you can't do both at the same time. It takes time to master one trading strategy and it takes even more time to make one (even if you don't do it from scratch). But if you want to make money ASAP then you have to put aside the idea of making your own and focus on mastering the existing ones. I support anyone who's trying to make their own trading strategy because it's the best but also the toughest road to take but I'm also positive everyone on Kreslik is more than willing to help :)


Really thought about this and I'll take your advice, I'll have to dial back up a bit on this off my own stuff.

The thing about that is that is puts me back on square one, no? Well if I really think about it I did improve (from a consistent losing scalper to more of a B/E type or slightly above with some luck), had a few positive mind shifts and my trading 'awareness' has also improved, so I don't think it's square one :lol: .

The 'cons' side of this is that I've now been looking at these charts so much in this way that there are certain things that my eyes kind of look for, which might not be entirely bad but maybe detrimental if I apply it to whichever other method I'm using. Things like looking for swings going higher or lower than the previous, price ranging and not going anywhere, and swings extremes to avoid trading into them (both LTF and HTF), but at the same time, maybe this are more general price action stuff that does still apply to every method and was good learning.

I'll do some brain recalibrating this weekend :lol:.

And lastly, maybe asking for too much but since I already have you here so I'll take the shot. In the spirit of 1) not overcomplicating my trading and 2) dial back on my stuff and master an existing method, knowing that you still know how to scalp, could you throw me a bone on one strategy you use with one entry method so that I could master it? I say this last part because as you mentioned, if I'm using too much of my own stuff it's difficult for others to really give me pointers since it's not really how they're doing it (and for some reason I have an easier time understanding they way you post stuff, don't really know why). And as always thanks Don! Truly you're helping me lots in my trading :D


I put my stuff on my thread and it's for everyone to see. Read and then try. After a while, re-read and re-try. Repeat until you get it. Some people go there and they get it. Others take a while and get. The difference between your trades and mine is you do the breakouts I do the "before the breakouts". I've mentioned this before, Alias' Deadhorse is eerily similar so if you can't straight away understand mine then go to his thread and maybe you'll pick something along the way that will help you understand mine. Or, if while doing it, you become fluent in Alias' deadhorse, then you can also use that instead of mine. One of the biggest difference between deadhorse with mine lies in the R. Even I read his thread looking for gems because his thread is much older and there are input from many other members there that are useful.



Jhx wrote:This is what I mean when I said that I now read the chart in a certain way. I only took that short that stopped me out at 0.7R as I wanted to see if it went back down to that area, which it did a few minutes after. But ignore that. In the move up I didn't like the wicks so I took none.

So I see price going down and down, and it stops at a low from one month ago and there's a reaction around there.
Then it stops to a recent high in the chart, and back down to the HTF area.
Then up again, breaks it, retests, gets really close to a resistance area from 2 hours ago, then back down all the way to that HTF resistance.

I'm being too aware of these areas and they might prevent me to take trades towards them, but maybe it's not a bad thing, because regardless of the method of entry price might stop there. So I don't know if this will be a good or bad habit for whichever entry I choose.

GU_08192022.png
GU_08192022_HTF_Context.png


According to your chart and way of trading, you could've entered from these points in chart... (marked in yellow). My question is why didn't you consider those points? Maybe because you are using the MA. However, MA is also a good filter during choppy times. So how will you use this information to improve your stuff?

GU_08192022 marked with yellow.png
GU_08192022 marked with yellow.png (114.12 KiB) Viewed 608 times


Edit note: sorry I forgot to mark the other points on that chart
Do you trade money for time or time for money?

All relevant links in my thread:
post148989#p148989

Please add www.kreslik.com to your ad blocker white list.
Thank you for your support.


Return to “TheRumpledOne”