The ideas that I trade by:

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Mira
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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby Mira » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:24 pm

MightyOne wrote:
Jalarupa wrote:
TheRumpledOne wrote:Wish I understood what you mean by "risk lines/make lines".

Risk money... Make money...

A line is a pre determined amount of risk capital that you add to as you win... (collect lines)

Risking 1% over 30 pips
Assuming one line is 10 pips or 0.34%

If you make a line it means you take a small profit at 10 pips...

Your next trade is now 1.34% over three lines... So your lot size automatically increases but your risk remains relative to the initial 1%...

This is my crude understanding of it all... Fx Synergy does all of this stuff for me in the back end (plug)

I've even siphoned off a small slave account and geared it to mirror my normal trades but at 5 times the risk/position size...

The results have been Dragonesque to say the least... On a relative and absolute basis...


Your risk is technically 1.34% but since the result can only be loss (-1%) or profit (win goal) I always consider 1% to be at risk.


OPM.png



MO, do you think that there's a way to use EIGHTS with Euro instead of Dollars? :oops: :oops:

Thank you much.
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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby Pjort » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:32 pm

So MO
Thanks you very much for your reply and taking time drawing your lesson on my chart-
I hold my small position and will try go on biulding a position size acording to a hopefully correct choosen trend.
Also try to pip som daytrades and some scalps to make the space larger.

And Jalarupa tnx for explaining the LINES again and again...
And TRO tnx for being so honest admitting that you dont understand - I am to chicken being THAT honest, LOL
And TNX everyone else I havent TNX'sss

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby MightyOne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:21 am

TheRumpledOne wrote:
That is where I get "lost".

Are you saying you exited trade #1 with a profit?

Then your next trade you increase you lot size to include the trade #1 profit?

Then if you lose (stop out), you lose the trade #1 profit plus the initial trade #1 risk?

If this like letting it all ride at the craps table?


Let's divide 1% into 4 lines ('risk-box' = 4) to make things simple.

A 'line' is a fraction of the total risk (whatever is/was in the box): a line can be 10 pips or 20, 40, 80, etc, as long as the risk is 1/4 of whatever was/is in the box.

If you make 1 line then you have made .25% which is then divvied up between the 4 lines: all future gains are then (5/4)*.25 per line or +0.3125%...
.3125 * 4 = 1.25%.

How much profit is risked on the next trade depends on how many lines are used on the next trade: .25 / 4 = 0.0625% per line used.

If you lose 1 line (.3125%) then 3 lines remain & if you increase your lines to 4, by reducing your position size to 3/4, then you are making (3/4)*.3125% per line or 0.2343%: you are sitting with a small loss but had you succeeded you would be making 25% more money going forward and if you made 2 more lines after that then it would jump to (6/4)*31.25% or 46.875% increased profits (an extra 9.3 pips of profit per 20 pips).

In Craps you would have $100 and bet $100/4, $25, between numbers.
If you make $35 then you would divide $135/4, $30, between numbers
If you make $42 then you would divide $177/4, $40, between numbers.

If you lose $80 then you might divide $97/3, $30 between numbers.
If you lose $30 then you would divide $67/3, $20 between numbers.

If you make $28 then you would divide $95/3, $30, between numbers.
etc
What you don't do is risk the money set aside for one session (a risk-box) on a single shooter: you need to survive until lady luck shows up.

Just like in trading, you are limited by minimums and maximums; playing for higher stakes takes care of the first problem.

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby Pjort » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:34 am

MightyOne wrote:
TheRumpledOne wrote:
That is where I get "lost".

Are you saying you exited trade #1 with a profit?

Then your next trade you increase you lot size to include the trade #1 profit?

Then if you lose (stop out), you lose the trade #1 profit plus the initial trade #1 risk?

If this like letting it all ride at the craps table?


Let's divide 1% into 4 lines ('risk-box' = 4) to make things simple.

A 'line' is a fraction of the total risk (whatever is/was in the box): a line can be 10 pips or 20, 40, 80, etc, as long as the risk is 1/4 of whatever was/is in the box.

If you make 1 line then you have made .25% which is then divvied up between the 4 lines: all future gains are then (5/4)*.25 per line or +0.3125%...
.3125 * 4 = 1.25%.

How much profit is risked on the next trade depends on how many lines are used on the next trade: .25 / 4 = 0.0625% per line used.

If you lose 1 line (.3125%) then 3 lines remain & if you increase your lines to 4, by reducing your position size to 3/4, then you are making (3/4)*.3125% per line or 0.2343%: you are sitting with a small loss but had you succeeded you would be making 25% more money going forward and if you made 2 more lines after that then it would jump to (6/4)*31.25% or 46.875% increased profits (an extra 9.3 pips of profit per 20 pips).

In Craps you would have $100 and bet $100/4, $25, between numbers.
If you make $35 then you would divide $135/4, $30, between numbers
If you make $42 then you would divide $177/4, $40, between numbers.

If you lose $80 then you might divide $97/3, $30 between numbers.
If you lose $30 then you would divide $67/3, $20 between numbers.

If you make $28 then you would divide $95/3, $30, between numbers.
etc
What you don't do is risk the money set aside for one session (a risk-box) on a single shooter: you need to survive until lady luck shows up.

Just like in trading, you are limited by minimums and maximums; playing for higher stakes takes care of the first problem.


Hello MO and co,,,

If I was thinking about your system in a super simplyfied way... could I say it this way:

I hold a 100 euro LONG position on let say EURJPY at price 1320-
Then price go 40 pip down to 1300 - I reduce my position 20% to 80 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1260 - I reduce my position 20% to 64 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1220 - I reduce my position 20% to 40 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1180 - I reduce my position 20% to 32 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1140 - I reduce my position 20% to 26 euro
And so on....

If price then goes my way "the LONG way"... I put on money on the table again!!?
Like this:
The price go up 40 pip up to 1180 - I expand my position 25 % to 32 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1220 - I expand my position 25 % to 40 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1260 - I expand my position 25 % to 64 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1300 - I expand my position 25 % to 80 euro

Wupti I am back again in business and have the same position as I started uout with, hopefully no loss... (maybee som slippage and spread cost...)

How far from your idear about Lines is this??

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Pjort wrote:And TRO tnx for being so honest admitting that you dont understand - I am to chicken being THAT honest, LOL


When it comes to learning, I have NO EGO. I WANT TO LEARN.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE, ONLY LEARNING.

I DON'T CARE IF SOMEONE ELSE THINKS I AM STUPID, DUMB, ETC.. I ONLY CARE ABOUT LEARNING.

I DON'T CARE HOW MANY QUESTIONS IT TAKES.

I DON'T CARE HOW LONG IT TAKES.

I AM SINGLE MINDED... I WANT TO LEARN.

IF I DO NOT LEARN, THE FAULT IS MINE AND MINE ALONE.

IF I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, I DO NOT PRETEND THAT I DO. I DO NOT CHEAT MYSELF OUT OF LEARNING.

IT IS NOT ABOUT ME BEING HONEST. IT IS ABOUT ME BEING GREEDY WHEN I COMES TO LEARNING. I WANT TO LEARN AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN.

THE JOB OF EDUCATION NEVER ENDS...

ALWAYS BE LEARNING...
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby TheRumpledOne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:19 pm

MO:

If you make 1 line then you have made .25% which is then divvied up between the 4 lines: all future gains are then (5/4)*.25 per line or +0.3125%...
.3125 * 4 = 1.25%.

Does make 1 line, mean you have exited the trade at 1 line? I think this is where language is tripping me up.
IT'S NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT'S HOW YOU TRADE IT!



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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby MightyOne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:48 pm

Pjort wrote:
Hello MO and co,,,

If I was thinking about your system in a super simplyfied way... could I say it this way:

I hold a 100 euro LONG position on let say EURJPY at price 1320-
Then price go 40 pip down to 1300 - I reduce my position 20% to 80 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1260 - I reduce my position 20% to 64 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1220 - I reduce my position 20% to 40 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1180 - I reduce my position 20% to 32 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1140 - I reduce my position 20% to 26 euro
And so on....

If price then goes my way "the LONG way"... I put on money on the table again!!?
Like this:
The price go up 40 pip up to 1180 - I expand my position 25 % to 32 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1220 - I expand my position 25 % to 40 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1260 - I expand my position 25 % to 64 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1300 - I expand my position 25 % to 80 euro

Wupti I am back again in business and have the same position as I started uout with, hopefully no loss... (maybee som slippage and spread cost...)

How far from your idear about Lines is this??


I assume that this is on the level of a weekly chart trade?

Let's just say that you were making 100 euro per line (40 pips) so that it looks like this:

381
305
244
195
156
125
100 / 40
80
64
51
40
32
26

I think that there is a night and day difference:

Using a risk-box one has 8 lines of 100 euro and there need not be any reduction in position size:
If you lose 1 line then you have 7 lines of 100 and if you lose another then you have 6 lines of 100.
If you then make 3 lines you can increase your size by (9/6)*100 or 6 lines of 150.

Now you lose 2 lines and decide to focus on preserving space so you bring your lines back up to 6: (4/6)*150 or 6 lines of 100;
had you not lost 2 lines you might have made 2 lines for a total of 8 lines of 150 euro...or 12 lines of 100 which is a $400 profit (12 - 8).

1 line of 150 euro could be over 80, 40, 20, 10, or 5 pips; I can move seemlessly between pairs and periods:
If you go from 8 lines of 150 to 12 lines then you can reduce your lines to 6 of 300 euro.
If you trade a larger chart then 6 lines is plenty of space and as you bring in more lines you can afford to trade smaller charts where lines are created and destroyed at a faster pace.

After losing 2 lines of 40 pips I could make 2 lines of 10 pips pips: my pip total is -60 but my profit is around break even: that is why I say that we are not "trading for pips".

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby MightyOne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:51 pm

TheRumpledOne wrote:
Does make 1 line, mean you have exited the trade at 1 line? I think this is where language is tripping me up.


Yes.

If a line is $20 then +$20 is 1 line.

If I increase the value of a line to $30 then $30 is 1 line and my total lines are reduce to 2/3 (8 lines becomes 5.333):
now I might risk 2 lines of $30 with 3.333 lines behind it or (30/25)*3.333 or 4 lines of $25 if the trade is lost.

Knowing how many lines you usually require and how many lines you have behind a trade will allow you to evaluate the pros and cons of every trade: should I risk 2 or 3 of my 4 lines on the hourly, move up to the H4 where I can better control my losses, or move up to the D1 where I can micro manage the trade? There might not be a trade at the H4 level so your choice is then to increase your lines from 4 to 6, providing the 2 lines that you are going to be risking, and trade H1.

It seems complicated but it is not:
if you lose 4 lines then you strike out; how do you wish to proceed?

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby Pjort » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:20 am

TheRumpledOne wrote:
Pjort wrote:And TRO tnx for being so honest admitting that you dont understand - I am to chicken being THAT honest, LOL


When it comes to learning, I have NO EGO. I WANT TO LEARN.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE, ONLY LEARNING.

I DON'T CARE IF SOMEONE ELSE THINKS I AM STUPID, DUMB, ETC.. I ONLY CARE ABOUT LEARNING.

I DON'T CARE HOW MANY QUESTIONS IT TAKES.

I DON'T CARE HOW LONG IT TAKES.

I AM SINGLE MINDED... I WANT TO LEARN.

IF I DO NOT LEARN, THE FAULT IS MINE AND MINE ALONE.

IF I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, I DO NOT PRETEND THAT I DO. I DO NOT CHEAT MYSELF OUT OF LEARNING.

IT IS NOT ABOUT ME BEING HONEST. IT IS ABOUT ME BEING GREEDY WHEN I COMES TO LEARNING. I WANT TO LEARN AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN.

THE JOB OF EDUCATION NEVER ENDS...

ALWAYS BE LEARNING...


Hello TRO

I think your are like the uncle in the family that everyone is a litle bit afraid off, but also wouldnt want be without...
I hope you understand my Danish humor... (it is a positive meant!!)

I guess this is a community where we all try to share our common passion and discuss ideas. And that will include many questions... Silly or not...
Anyway great with your honest style... It is an inspiration...

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Re: The ideas that I trade by:

Postby Pjort » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:31 am

MightyOne wrote:
Pjort wrote:
Hello MO and co,,,

If I was thinking about your system in a super simplyfied way... could I say it this way:

I hold a 100 euro LONG position on let say EURJPY at price 1320-
Then price go 40 pip down to 1300 - I reduce my position 20% to 80 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1260 - I reduce my position 20% to 64 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1220 - I reduce my position 20% to 40 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1180 - I reduce my position 20% to 32 euro
Then price go 40 pip down to 1140 - I reduce my position 20% to 26 euro
And so on....

If price then goes my way "the LONG way"... I put on money on the table again!!?
Like this:
The price go up 40 pip up to 1180 - I expand my position 25 % to 32 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1220 - I expand my position 25 % to 40 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1260 - I expand my position 25 % to 64 euro
The price go up 40 pip up to 1300 - I expand my position 25 % to 80 euro

Wupti I am back again in business and have the same position as I started uout with, hopefully no loss... (maybee som slippage and spread cost...)

How far from your idear about Lines is this??


I assume that this is on the level of a weekly chart trade?

Let's just say that you were making 100 euro per line (40 pips) so that it looks like this:

381
305
244
195
156
125
100 / 40
80
64
51
40
32
26

I think that there is a night and day difference:

Using a risk-box one has 8 lines of 100 euro and there need not be any reduction in position size:
If you lose 1 line then you have 7 lines of 100 and if you lose another then you have 6 lines of 100.
If you then make 3 lines you can increase your size by (9/6)*100 or 6 lines of 150.

Now you lose 2 lines and decide to focus on preserving space so you bring your lines back up to 6: (4/6)*150 or 6 lines of 100;
had you not lost 2 lines you might have made 2 lines for a total of 8 lines of 150 euro...or 12 lines of 100 which is a $400 profit (12 - 8).

1 line of 150 euro could be over 80, 40, 20, 10, or 5 pips; I can move seemlessly between pairs and periods:
If you go from 8 lines of 150 to 12 lines then you can reduce your lines to 6 of 300 euro.
If you trade a larger chart then 6 lines is plenty of space and as you bring in more lines you can afford to trade smaller charts where lines are created and destroyed at a faster pace.

After losing 2 lines of 40 pips I could make 2 lines of 10 pips pips: my pip total is -60 but my profit is around break even: that is why I say that we are not "trading for pips".


Hi Mo
Thanks for explaining... It is funny I dont it get really - but I feel it is something about staying the trade - like not getting stopped out all the time and being forced to start allover again- and maybee begin to overtrade. Something about being able to keep focus on the bigger picture and being able to catch a larger move...

Have a nice Sunday everyone...

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