Can someone explain to me the structure of running an EA?

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permanentjaun
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Can someone explain to me the structure of running an EA?

Postby permanentjaun » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:57 am

Howdy folks,

I've recently realized the importance of running through an ECN. Unfortunately that means MT4 is out of the picture.

I have a scalping system I'd like built, but I don't know how to code C#. I also have no clue what systems I need to trade.

I want to forward test my system live with a few hundred bucks through MB Trading, and then eventually grow into better ECN's if the system works.

On a very high level, what would be the structure of how I'd have to run the system through MBT, and then other eventual ECN's? Right now I believe Ninjatrader connects in to my MBT account and can create charts. Why would I need Neoticker/Tradestation/zenfire for? What are they doing for me?

Image

That is from NT's website. Sure I do have NT has some charting, but not very robust. I'm sure it can be built up with custom indicators.

If my strategy is automated, do I need to bother with an advanced charting package?

I'm sure you guys get the idea. I'm lost in all the different programs.

Any help is appreciate in understanding all of this.

Matt

P.S. - Do I dare ask the qualities/benefits of one scripting language over another?

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Postby androfx » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:01 am

1. ECN/broker interface
It is usually a special piece of software or FIX protocol based interface.

- MBT/EFX has mbtsdk - COM (Microsoft technology) based libraries wich are connected to MBT Navigator. I believe you can choose from C#,C++, Visual Basic, J++ (if it still exists), Delphi or any other COM enabled programming language. Recently I checked that Iron Python has this ability too. FIX is an option but they bother only with big fishes.

- IB has TWS - Java based trading interface and is providing libraries to connect to it. Libraries comes with source code and are done in C++,Java, DDE and ActiveX. They supply FIX interface as well but it comes with a cost.


2. Execution logic
You can use any trading software which provides trading interface and a way how to program it. Some trading software provides better tools some not - NinjaTrader seems to be less complete than NeoTicker.
Over all you can do your trading from Excel using Visual Basic and be connected through ActiveX or DDE :roll: .

There are so many options but at the end of the day you can make your own program based on ECN/broker interface with very ease.

I would thing that all you need is choose any COM enabled language to connect to MBT/EFX Navigator and make your own program without using any charting/trading package.

EDIT: I just have checked Ninja Trader website and they provide these interfaces to their software:
* File interface
* DLL interface
* COM interface
* TradeStation Email interface
So just choose one :lol: and start reading the manual.

EDIT2: And BTW hotspotfx supports Metatrader. Maybe that is the way you should take to test your already profitable strategy.

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Postby permanentjaun » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Thank you very much for the detailed response. Now if I only understood what you say.

Can you explain what you mean by NinjaTrader being less complete than Neoticker in execution logic?

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Postby androfx » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:28 pm

permanentjaun wrote:Thank you very much for the detailed response. Now if I only understood what you say.

If you do not understand I think you have to study a bit to be able to extend a trading platform or to program your own stuff.

permanentjaun wrote:Can you explain what you mean by NinjaTrader being less complete than Neoticker in execution logic?


I did not mention that the difference is in execution logic... :lol:
I do not have any experience with any of them. I have read a lot about Neoticker and it's abilies (not marketing bullshit) but not too much about NinjaTrader. The only difference I see is that Neo is more expensive
8)

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Postby permanentjaun » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:20 am

androfx wrote:If you do not understand I think you have to study a bit to be able to extend a trading platform or to program your own stuff.



I did not mention that the difference is in execution logic... :lol:
I do not have any experience with any of them. I have read a lot about Neoticker and it's abilies (not marketing bullshit) but not too much about NinjaTrader. The only difference I see is that Neo is more expensive
8)


You're right. I'm a ways away from being able to program my own stuff. I'm going to try learning NinjaTraders wizard to build up a system. I am just wondering what type of system I should build in to. I don't currently understand what DLL, COM, file, and tradestation email interfaces are; or even what an interface is in this aspect.

My big concern is, what format is best to build in to. I'd rather get things right as early in the process as possible. Oiy.

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Postby eudamonia » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:45 pm

Perm,

Spend some time researching the two different platforms. Unfortunately the answer to YOUR trading solution will vary greatly from the next person.

If you are REALLY serious about programming your own system you have YEARS of work ahead of you based on what you've said so far (don't understand DLL, COM file or SMTP email interfaces). Good luck!

BTW you might consider simply paying someone else to do the coding for you. You had best know what you WANT first, and second you had better ask around for the right programmer. Programmers vary in skill much like traders (95% of them don't know enough to do most things competently).

Edward
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Postby permanentjaun » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:43 am

eudamonia wrote:Perm,

Spend some time researching the two different platforms. Unfortunately the answer to YOUR trading solution will vary greatly from the next person.

If you are REALLY serious about programming your own system you have YEARS of work ahead of you based on what you've said so far (don't understand DLL, COM file or SMTP email interfaces). Good luck!

BTW you might consider simply paying someone else to do the coding for you. You had best know what you WANT first, and second you had better ask around for the right programmer. Programmers vary in skill much like traders (95% of them don't know enough to do most things competently).

Edward


Actually, I'm not very serious about programming. I have trading ideas NOW, and want to act on them NOW. I will gladly pay someone to code for me. I am in talks with one guy who is doing it for free since he likes the strategy, but he has gone dark on me. He lives half a world away from me, is having a child, and is very busy with work. It's been a month and a half since we began speaking and I have nothing to show for it.

I went to the certified NinjaTrader programmers page and received a quote that a typical system will cost $800 to code. That's out of my price range and a ridiculous amount if you ask me. Someone with experience should be able to code my system in 1-2 hours conservatively. It has no indicators or tricky entry/exit strategies.

The reason I started this thread is because I want to know how I should build the system. If it's going to cost me to run the system I'd like to know what programs I should run it through for best performance. Is one program better than another? What's the difference between Tradestation and Ninjatrader? What is the best, dll, com, smtp?

It's like learning an instrument. Sure you could probably teach yourself, but you're better off having someone teach you the correct form so you don't hurt your development down the road. I want to know what programs are the best to start off on so I don't hurt myself later on. If I code in Ninjatrader now, will I have to start from scratch a year from now to code in an entirely new language for a trading platform that is head and shoulders above Ninjatrader once my account is big enough to move to the big boys?

This is why I started the thread. Now that you mention it though, know any good programmers that don't cost $800 to code a simple system?

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Postby eudamonia » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:56 am

Perm,

Not to be harsh but $800 is pretty cheap in the market place. Sorry you don't feel that way but it's the truth. Trading is not a cheap endeavor. And you wouldn't try to start any other business with less than $1000 IMHO. And that's what trading is - a business not a game. You are going to be trading up against the finest minds and largest capital base in the world. You are trying to beat the Tiger Woods level players in the marketplace everyday.

Like learning an instrument, programming your own code will take years to master. Sure you can play a couple power cords in the first month you take up the guitar, but it will take you years to learn how to shred. So choose - do you want to pay someone "a lot of money" as you say to program for you or do you want to spend thousands of hours to learn to do it yourself?

Those are your choices. Good luck.

Edward
Eudaimonia (pron.: you-die-moan-e-a) (Greek: εὐδαιμονία) is a classical Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness'. The less subjective "human flourishing" is often preferred as a translation.

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Postby permanentjaun » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:16 am

Edward,

No offense taken. I understand that some things are worth paying for. I am willing to pay only what something is worth though. Should I expect to pay $800 for someone to code a simple MA cross system? That is not what my system is, but just as simple if not simpler.

I just don't see something like that costing $800 to code. I may be wrong.

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Postby androfx » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:51 pm

permanentjaun wrote:I just don't see something like that costing $800 to code. I may be wrong.


A quant programmer in the City can have somewhere around 1000-2000 USD/day... And if it takes just one or two hours, I am sure anybody can do the same thing in about two weeks of focused working. Just do not be too low on your abilities, Forget crying and do your home work !

Are you afraid that you will learn something more on the way?

And by the way why you do not trade it manually to earn some cash to pay a programmer?

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