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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:48 am

noone22 wrote:I'm not going into any discussions of validity or profitability
of any trading method.
I've understood, all what is required for me.

Keep in mind, that jongling with the words could confuse other
people. For example, you don't even know the definition
of the word random - but using it extensively - this was
the reason of my confusion (I did believe, that you're really using pure
random lines). In fact, they're very far from random.
And there is nothing magic, what you could see, but I don't
(I suppose the opposite), I was just asking the questions
from curiosity.

Just think about following example:
Let's say you're following your "pseudo-random" system
and placed a buy line. And you're right 100% (imagine
this just for example).
Another trader will place pure random line (again -
in strict accordance with your random system) to sell,
exactly at the same place, where your buy line is.
Possible - of course (at least - if follow your pseudo-system
exactly, without any other rules, which I unsucessfully was
trying to get from you).
As a result, you're always in win, but this fellow is
always in lost - what can you say now about the system?

What I'm trading - is a long story.
But yes - I'm trading many methods, BuyZone included.

But this is not just naked BuyZone,
it's BuyZone in conjuction with TRO (and other) indicators -
this combo seems to bring some profit.

Naked BuyZone (just BZ indicator and nothing else) -
is not profitable. I've spent 2 months playing, trading
and struggling with it and cannot make
it profitable.

But this discussion has nothing to do with BuyZone,
it's about random lines.


the op mentioned myself earlier and wanted me to post, so i am going to post


this guy--- diesel---- comes on here willing to show and talk about what he is doing. Even giving a link to ff where he states his rules. You in return tell him that he is not disclosing exactly what he is doing and that he will fail because it is random and cant possibly work. When in fact tro was the one who posted on random lines first, showing that it did work.

he comes on here trying to pay something forward and you are busting his cohennes.

why dont YOU post SOMETHING that YOU are doing that may HELP other traders instead of busting others cohennes ---------- wow that may be way too novel of an idea for a "Scientist"





unreal
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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dieselboy101
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Postby dieselboy101 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:06 am

ES- Much respect for saying how you feel, but I dont mind a good debate. As long as noone22 knows I respect him/her I hope noone22 can respect me as well. No hard feelings and if noone22 has info he/she would like to share I say bring it!

Man today has been a great day! TRO and ES, two icons in my mind have posted in my topic!!! Im pumped. ES I have a few questions and would like to know if I could p.m. you. Let me know

All I need now is mighty one, procharge, and of course Dragon33, and i would be one happy duck.

To noone22, patch, tro, AND now ES- Much respect!

Diesel
STAY HUNGRY

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:11 am

dieselboy101 wrote:ES- Much respect for saying how you feel, but I dont mind a good debate. As long as noone22 knows I respect him/her I hope noone22 can respect me as well. No hard feelings and if noone22 has info he/she would like to share I say bring it!

Man today has been a great day! TRO and ES, two icons in my mind have posted in my topic!!! Im pumped. ES I have a few questions and would like to know if I could p.m. you. Let me know

All I need now is mighty one, procharge, and of course Dragon33, and i would be one happy duck.

To noone22, patch, tro, AND now ES- Much respect!

Diesel


lol


yeah u can pm me
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

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es/pip
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Postby es/pip » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:18 am

dieselboy101 wrote:ES- Much respect for saying how you feel, but I dont mind a good debate. As long as noone22 knows I respect him/her I hope noone22 can respect me as well. No hard feelings and if noone22 has info he/she would like to share I say bring it!

Man today has been a great day! TRO and ES, two icons in my mind have posted in my topic!!! Im pumped. ES I have a few questions and would like to know if I could p.m. you. Let me know

All I need now is mighty one, procharge, and of course Dragon33, and i would be one happy duck.

To noone22, patch, tro, AND now ES- Much respect!

Diesel



Icon?

hardly

i am just a normal person like everyone else. Not any smarter than the next guy. I dropped out of college after two years. All i did is make trading work for me. Trust me, if i can do this than anyone can.
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

dieselboy101
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Postby dieselboy101 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:20 am

TRO you wanted me to post in that forum? here is what I wrote:

If you want to find TRO its very simple. Parawhatever says TRO is laying low? B.S. TRO can easily be found on kreslik. head over there and start making money. TRO doesnt lay low, he gets banned! that is the difference! Kreslik is an UNcensored forum. I will ask these questions: When does a forum silence the ones who want to help? Why does a thread get shut down when it has gotten the most views? My answer is because the BROKERS who pay the forum, say get that guy outta here! he is DRAINING OUR BANKS! The forum bends over and says "Yes master"...and the rest is history



lets see if I get banned for writing this post, and lets see how many claim that dieselboy is TRO hahahaha...



Much respect,

Diesel
STAY HUNGRY

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MightyOne
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Postby MightyOne » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:28 am

noone22 wrote:I'm not going into any discussions of validity or profitability
of any trading method.
I've understood, all what is required for me.

Keep in mind, that jongling with the words could confuse other
people. For example, you don't even know the definition
of the word random - but using it extensively - this was
the reason of my confusion (I did believe, that you're really using pure
random lines). In fact, they're very far from random.
And there is nothing magic, what you could see, but I don't
(I suppose the opposite), I was just asking the questions
from curiosity.

Just think about following example:
Let's say you're following your "pseudo-random" system
and placed a buy line. And you're right 100% (imagine
this just for example).
Another trader will place pure random line (again -
in strict accordance with your random system) to sell,
exactly at the same place, where your buy line is.
Possible - of course (at least - if follow your pseudo-system
exactly, without any other rules, which I unsucessfully was
trying to get from you).
As a result, you're always in win, but this fellow is
always in lost - what can you say now about the system?

What I'm trading - is a long story.
But yes - I'm trading many methods, BuyZone included.

But this is not just naked BuyZone,
it's BuyZone in conjuction with TRO (and other) indicators -
this combo seems to bring some profit.

Naked BuyZone (just BZ indicator and nothing else) -
is not profitable. I've spent 2 months playing, trading
and struggling with it and cannot make
it profitable.

But this discussion has nothing to do with BuyZone,
it's about random lines.


After two months of watching how price responds to BuyZone entries you could not find a small adjustment that would put you inline with profit?

It is like a trader who only buys when x happens and insists on using a 10 pip stop only to have price retrace 80% of the time for 15 pips and then watch as price rockets in his direction.
If that trader would only make the adjustment of placing a limit order where his stop would normally be then his experience would be entirely different.

Next example:

A trader again only buys when x happens and uses a 10 pip stop.
this time the trader notices that 60% of the time, when his stop is hit, price keeps tanking by at least 13 pips.
Instead of placing the buy that his system calls for he now adjusts by placing a sell order where his stop would be.

Is this person trading based on the original system? Yes!
Is he trading based on the rules of the original system? No!

The key is that the trader has a set of rules which he follows to signal a trade.
Instead of trading the signal he trades the markets response to the signal and that makes all the difference.

BuyZone:

1. Price moves into the BuyZone and doesn't retrace to take out your stop.

Trade the BuyZone as intended.

2. Price moves into the BuyZone and then reverses to the opposite BuyZone and does't retrace to take out your stop.

Wait for price to touch one BuyZone and then trade the other.

3. Price moves into the BuyZone and then reverses to the opposite BuyZone only to retrace and take out your stop before moving in your direction.

Wait for price to touch one BuyZone and then the other and place a limit order on the open price or open +/- x pips.

4. Price moves into the buy zone and you find your self sitting at +6 so you move your stop to break even only to have nothing to show for your effort.

a. Alternate between taking 5+ pips and moving your stop to B.E. +1
b. reduce your position size by at least a 3rd and move your stop to B.E.
c. Reduce your position size by at least a 3rd and do not move your stop.

SEE-DO-HAVE :shock:

I trade the BuyZone and retracements off the daily extremes and they work very well WITHOUT INDICATORS or SQUIGGLY!

dieselboy101
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Postby dieselboy101 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:36 am

Hot Damn!!! Thats 3!!! Where is Dragon hahaha
STAY HUNGRY

dieselboy101
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Postby dieselboy101 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:48 am

Wow this never lose again thread is a doozy. only on page 153 and its 12:47 am here..i need to rest before I ATTEMPT to do work on zlines which I think mightyone, es and dragon use?
STAY HUNGRY

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noone22
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Postby noone22 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:54 am

es/pip wrote:he comes on here trying to pay something forward and you are busting his cohennes


I'm on this forum to learn how to trade, not to attack or
"bust" anyone.

If I don't understand something - I'm asking the question
(that's what I'm usually doing).

If I don't agree - I'm openly writing about this
(I'm doing this only if I have enough grounds and knowledge
on the matter).
Last edited by noone22 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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noone22
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Postby noone22 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:00 pm

MightyOne wrote:It is like a trader who only buys when x happens and insists on using a 10 pip stop only to have price retrace 80% of the time for 15 pips and then watch as price rockets in his direction.
If that trader would only make the adjustment of placing a limit order where his stop would normally be then his experience would be entirely different


Thank you for such a great explanation about BZ!

However, it is not clear for me in all of the details.

In your example above:

Trader entered to buy in BZ by placing TTO limit order:
with take-profit 7 pips higher
and stop-loss with 10 pips lower

Now price goes down till stop-loss.

What trader suppose to do?
Put a limit order - don't understand which one?
Limit buy or limit sell?
What are take-profit and stop-loss of this limit order?
What about the original order?

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