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newscalper
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Postby newscalper » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:51 pm

bettlebox wrote:Based purely on that chart humble posted and his comments this what i see.

2 pictures 1 is orginal picture its bit of mess so i did a simplfied version of the same price movement to help example what i see.



here is orginal

Well that looks like you're saying the same as Humble in that until every single small TF zline is broken to the downside then price is going up. This cannot be so because it would mean that price is not going down until it's already gone WAY down, actually probably to the higher TF demand area again.

Are you even looking at the higher TF chart. Was there not a big downward move, is there not a supply area there ?

Is the higher TF momo larger or smaller than the small TF momo?

You're either trend trading the small TF or you're trading pure supply and demand retracements from the higher TF and they usually are opposite.

To whoever said something about looking for 100% - no I'm not, stop assuming.
2, also assuming I'm always looking for huge moves, again you are assuming.

Also, this was a trade trying to utilise space no? i.e. no moving of stops to break, not that was chance anyway as price never cleared the spread. And either reducing of lots when price closes across an If then, I exited when price closed across an if/then.

I know you['re being helpful but suggesting yet another method strategy, when trying to work out THIS specific one is not helpful as all it is doing is bringing more variables to the table.

I can tell you that the only trade long above the daily open with hourly bias is just as failure prone as any other I've tested it till death over umpteen years data a coulle of years back, manually in forex tester over about 3 markets. The only condition that made it work was the addition of trend following with the use of a trailing stop at lows, and that included when the trade was not in profit as well as when it was. Exiting after momo, exiting at previous swing highs etc did not 'work'. The problem? It's trend following so the win rate is quite low, sideways markets slaughter you, some markets make you money others destroy you - it's not consistent, some years you make money, others slaughter you etc. It's a crap-shoot. Similarly something as 'idiotic' as H4 breakouts with daily colour can be made to 'work' in testing or H4 bars crossing a 25 line with weekly colour a-la a weekly buyzone...;.caveat being in real time there are trades you don't take as you miss them, don't take because of news etc etc.

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Postby prochargedmopar » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:06 pm

newscalper wrote:
bettlebox wrote:Based purely on that chart humble posted and his comments this what i see.

2 pictures 1 is orginal picture its bit of mess so i did a simplfied version of the same price movement to help example what i see.



here is orginal

Well that looks like you're saying the same as Humble in that until every single small TF zline is broken to the downside then price is going up. This cannot be so because it would mean that price is not going down until it's already gone WAY down, actually probably to the higher TF demand area again.

Are you even looking at the higher TF chart. Was there not a big downward move, is there not a supply area there ?

Is the higher TF momo larger or smaller than the small TF momo?

You're either trend trading the small TF or you're trading pure supply and demand retracements from the higher TF and they usually are opposite.

To whoever said something about looking for 100% - no I'm not, stop assuming.
2, also assuming I'm always looking for huge moves, again you are assuming.

Also, this was a trade trying to utilise space no? i.e. no moving of stops to break, not that was chance anyway as price never cleared the spread. And either reducing of lots when price closes across an If then, I exited when price closed across an if/then.

I know you['re being helpful but suggesting yet another method strategy, when trying to work out THIS specific one is not helpful as all it is doing is bringing more variables to the table.

I can tell you that the only trade long above the daily open with hourly bias is just as failure prone as any other I've tested it till death over umpteen years data a coulle of years back, manually in forex tester over about 3 markets. The only condition that made it work was the addition of trend following with the use of a trailing stop at lows, and that included when the trade was not in profit as well as when it was. Exiting after momo, exiting at previous swing highs etc did not 'work'. The problem? It's trend following so the win rate is quite low, sideways markets slaughter you, some markets make you money others destroy you - it's not consistent, some years you make money, others slaughter you etc. It's a crap-shoot. Similarly something as 'idiotic' as H4 breakouts with daily colour can be made to 'work' in testing or H4 bars crossing a 25 line with weekly colour a-la a weekly buyzone...;.caveat being in real time there are trades you don't take as you miss them, don't take because of news etc etc.


Dude,
Go back to basics.
What is a trend?
What is consolidation?

Stop trying to trade the trend in consolidation...^^^^ above charts.

OR: move down to a 30 sec or 15 sec chart based on your above m5 levels.
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby prochargedmopar » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:07 pm

Hint:
TLOC
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby newscalper » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:00 pm

Yeah, I know TLOC. If you're doing TLOC there's clearly a lower high and lower low - there isn't if your'e choosing to ignore wicks as you are doing but if you use wicks the high is lower than the previous one. If you draw in a trendline through the rising lows they have also broken out and the entry is a retracement.
If you're using chappy's method also it's clearly a 123 breakout and all of his rules are met too.

You can re-draw it anyway you like after the fact

:lol:

But the fact is the trade was taken live, it met certain criteria and it lost so not sure why everyone is getting on my case?

Do you not have losing trades or something?

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Postby dojirock » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:20 pm

TLOC..???? probably simple..but ya lost me?
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO
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Postby prochargedmopar » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:40 pm

newscalper wrote:Yeah, I know TLOC. If you're doing TLOC there's clearly a lower high and lower low - there isn't if your'e choosing to ignore wicks as you are doing but if you use wicks the high is lower than the previous one. If you draw in a trendline through the rising lows they have also broken out and the entry is a retracement.
If you're using chappy's method also it's clearly a 123 breakout and all of his rules are met too.

You can re-draw it anyway you like after the fact

:lol:

But the fact is the trade was taken live, it met certain criteria and it lost so not sure why everyone is getting on my case?

Do you not have losing trades or something?


Losing trades?

Yeah, that's why we use an I/T line(with a much bigger target/direction Idea)
OR some of us may use a margin call to tell us we were wrong.
Depends on the goal of the trade.
:oops:
#1BODY in direction of profit #2INCREASE lot size Obsessively
My Losses cause me Great Laughter!
Trading Bible here> therumpledone/the-ideas-that-i-trade-by-t3256/page1670

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Postby dojirock » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:50 pm

News,

The I/T line is a bias change line. Not necessarily the entry line or area.

Revelations:

Space has nothing to do with entries. I know it has been said before, but I didn't listen. Start on the small time frames, build space to trade that time frame. The specific time frame will show you how much space you need. As you build up profitable trades, you can increase your space allowance to let you move up a time frame. Then repeat. It doesn't matter where you enter and you can trade long or short, to increase space. Thanks Mo, it only takes one little thing said the right way to finally catch on. Space on a hourly or 4hr chart can easily quadruple an account, especially for scalpers. I feel like I have finished the race and can now even trade long term.

Guys its all here in these threads, don't give up. When I feel I can add a different perspective on explaining it I will chime in.
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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Postby Karma » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:57 pm

We'll be very interested to see the way your charts and trading will change over the next few weeks doji

You've been a very exciting source of inspiration and education to watch this year
"Profit is found in a thinking mind. If you come to this . . . with pen and paper in hand then you will fail to find the beauty that exists within yourself." - MightyOne

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Postby Braathen » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Hi dojirock! (i have been drinking heavily this weekend and might not make sense).

So i will just throw this out here... and anyone that feels like flamming me
please do so at your own free will :D

I feel the goal of space is this "12 lots consumes more space than 04 lots so after a very short while there is a disconnect between what you are seeing on the chart and why you are placing new orders." and
"you can set pips on fire and place orders in the name of greed."-MO

So after you have chosen a strong(er) position (weekly+ extreme, large pointy place) then greed should take over. No candle stick pattern
or Boiling band should deture you from your greedy nature.
You would simply be placing orders as to accumlate space/lot sizes
before price expands either way.

"Price, on a regular bases will do 2 things.. make new highs/lows or come off them"

So this in my mind says that space has everything to do with entries.
Unless ofc your trying to align x line with your entry.

This is what i see and might be totaly wrong ;) but it sure does make sense to me :P

Back to drinking! I wish you the best of luck doji in reaching
your 100% in a week goal.. i too have this goal :D
"Trading is the ability to see & to plan & to act; it is not crystal balls, precision entries, and ego stroking."
MO-

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Postby dojirock » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:05 pm

Braathen,

This is my newfound understanding. I look at it as a journey from point a to point d. Point a tells me where I am. Point d is my destination, I have no disire to travel further. Once I leave point a, I stop at point b, my I/T line. Once I leave point b, my goal is to travel to point c, which is the I/T line I must check into before reaching point d. I can and will have many I/T lines within point b and c. I can trade long, short, or both on my journey as long as I dont lose focus on my destination, d . I must reach point c before I can determine how far point d is. Price reaches, pointy places (previous point c's) and then shows you where point d is. It can be at a pointy place or after range expansion. Man it feels good to finally understand what Mo means. Because point c has given me clear directions to point d, when reaching point d, the journey cycle ends. Everything I have obtained during my journey from point a to d has compounded tremendously.

By me saying I don't care about my entries, I mean, they don't have to be exact as long as I have enough space to cover my current position and speed from returning back to point b the I/T line. If my journey is a point a to d on the monthly chart, get ready to have insane returns.

Hope this helps.
"A small loss is just as satisfying as a large gain" -MO

"Sometimes we need to stop learning and start thinking...."

"Once you stack, you'll never go back!"

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