The ideas that I trade by:

[TheRumpledOne]

THERE ARE NO CHARTS!

Think about that statement. When I first learned how to trade, there was no online trading. There was no online. No internet. We were still punching cards. The stock market existed.

If price moves 10 pips on M1, it moves 10 pips on MN1 and on every chart in between. I understand about range. Either price moves for you or against you.

Maybe it is how you are using language. I don't "move" my trade to a larger chart. I may look at my trade on several charts of different time frames but it is still the same trade.

A trade "moves" to a different period when the speed at which you are making x dollars per line, as measured in the distance between lines and based on the assumption that it takes longer for price to traverse wider spaces and vise versa, changes.

Pips don't mean a thing to me, I could make 10 pips & lose 10 pips and be up $50; controlling the flow of money, that is what we are talking about.

Just because you make 5 tight lines, for a $50 profit, that doesn't mean that you have to further subject your OPM to short term volatility; you can make 5 wider lines for $50.

If all of this is obvious it is because it should be.

I just want to give a new person tools that he or she can immediately understand and use to grow in the understanding of what they can do so that they can make a more effective trading plan.

A bad man is scary, but a bad man behind bars is not so scary; control is confidence.

I don't believe in one trade, I believe in a series of trades that work under the canopy of a larger idea.

It is never about a single winning trade but how best one can utilize segments of risk to achieve the desired result.

123_123.png

NONE of this is obvious to me. Once again, my left-brain does not see the logic. I still fail to understand the connection between time and space. A space of 10 pips on one chart is the same space on another. If you change your lot size, then the value of the space changes. This has nothing to do with chart period. Furthermore, chart period really is irrelevant because once you put your trade on the only thing affecting the outcome is the price.

MO and everyone else, I am debating the subject matter and not attacking MO personally in any way, shape or form. This is a civilized forum.

[Mira]

THERE ARE NO CHARTS!

Think about that statement. When I first learned how to trade, there was no online trading. There was no online. No internet. We were still punching cards. The stock market existed.

If price moves 10 pips on M1, it moves 10 pips on MN1 and on every chart in between. I understand about range. Either price moves for you or against you.

Maybe it is how you are using language. I don't "move" my trade to a larger chart. I may look at my trade on several charts of different time frames but it is still the same trade.

A trade "moves" to a different period when the speed at which you are making x dollars per line, as measured in the distance between lines and based on the assumption that it takes longer for price to traverse wider spaces and vise versa, changes.

Pips don't mean a thing to me, I could make 10 pips & lose 10 pips and be up $50; controlling the flow of money, that is what we are talking about.

Just because you make 5 tight lines, for a $50 profit, that doesn't mean that you have to further subject your OPM to short term volatility; you can make 5 wider lines for $50.

If all of this is obvious it is because it should be.

I just want to give a new person tools that he or she can immediately understand and use to grow in the understanding of what they can do so that they can make a more effective trading plan.

A bad man is scary, but a bad man behind bars is not so scary; control is confidence.

I don't believe in one trade, I believe in a series of trades that work under the canopy of a larger idea.

It is never about a single winning trade but how best one can utilize segments of risk to achieve the desired result.

123_123.png

NONE of this is obvious to me. Once again, my left-brain does not see the logic. I still fail to understand the connection between time and space. A space of 10 pips on one chart is the same space on another. If you change your lot size, then the value of the space changes. This has nothing to do with chart period. Furthermore, chart period really is irrelevant because once you put your trade on the only thing affecting the outcome is the price.

MO and everyone else, I am debating the subject matter and not attacking MO personally in any way, shape or form. This is a civilized forum.

Space is a third dimension.
It's not lots, it's not pips.. it's lots over pips.

If you have a 10p stop loss and you are risking 10$ then if you cut in half your pips you have a risk of 5$ over 5 pips.
How could you keep the same risk (10$) over 5 pips? Adding lots! If you double your size then you cut your pips, now you have a risk of 10$ over 5 pips.
The same for the opposite situation.
Now imagine that you NEED more pips to protect your stop loss (i.e. a H1 momo became a H4+ momo).. just shade lots and you have the space you needed.

If price comes back to the origin of the breakout, and price does it, it will draw bigger patterns and bigger breakouts.


Patterns and BOs (momos) getting bigger, timeframe after timeframe:

H1.png (28.55 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

H4.png (26.1 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

D1.png (23.67 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

W1.png (22.08 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

MN.png (16.94 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

Your short trade ("1") is moving on bigger timeframes but you know that price will come back, you have to be prepared at this.

[salezyakuku]

From other side. Can I use same space for D1 chart and M5 chart? No. There is no faster way to calculate D1 trade G/U to M5 trade E/J or M5 E/J to two H4 trades eg. E/U and A/C.
If someone click 8 times adding 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 on M5 chart and want to go sleep for 8 hours how much he need to reduce and stay in game on D1 chart?
This is no braining conversion. Each line have same value and I don't need care that G/J range is 402 pips and I move trade to A/Ch where range is only 153 pips. I see setup or nice extreme and I will make same money. Then I can reduce 90% and very fast move OPM somewhere else.

BTW. When margin call alert appear then I know that I need move some my trades to HTF...... wait a minute... there is no yearly TF.

[TheRumpledOne]

A trade "moves" to a different period when the speed at which you are making x dollars per line, as measured in the distance between lines and based on the assumption that it takes longer for price to traverse wider spaces and vise versa, changes.

Pips don't mean a thing to me, I could make 10 pips & lose 10 pips and be up $50; controlling the flow of money, that is what we are talking about.

Just because you make 5 tight lines, for a $50 profit, that doesn't mean that you have to further subject your OPM to short term volatility; you can make 5 wider lines for $50.

If all of this is obvious it is because it should be.

I just want to give a new person tools that he or she can immediately understand and use to grow in the understanding of what they can do so that they can make a more effective trading plan.

A bad man is scary, but a bad man behind bars is not so scary; control is confidence.

I don't believe in one trade, I believe in a series of trades that work under the canopy of a larger idea.

It is never about a single winning trade but how best one can utilize segments of risk to achieve the desired result.

123_123.png

NONE of this is obvious to me. Once again, my left-brain does not see the logic. I still fail to understand the connection between time and space. A space of 10 pips on one chart is the same space on another. If you change your lot size, then the value of the space changes. This has nothing to do with chart period. Furthermore, chart period really is irrelevant because once you put your trade on the only thing affecting the outcome is the price.

MO and everyone else, I am debating the subject matter and not attacking MO personally in any way, shape or form. This is a civilized forum.

Space is a third dimension.
It's not lots, it's not pips.. it's lots over pips.

If you have a 10p stop loss and you are risking 10$ then if you cut in half your pips you have a risk of 5$ over 5 pips.
How could you keep the same risk (10$) over 5 pips? Adding lots! If you double your size then you cut your pips, now you have a risk of 10$ over 5 pips.
The same for the opposite situation.
Now imagine that you NEED more pips to protect your stop loss ([b]i.e. a H1 momo became a H4+ momo).. just shade lots and you have the space you needed.[/b]

If price comes back to the origin of the breakout, and price does it, it will draw bigger patterns and bigger breakouts.


Patterns and BOs (momos) getting bigger, timeframe after timeframe:

H1.png
H4.png
D1.png
W1.png
MN.png

Your short trade ("1") is moving on bigger timeframes but you know that price will come back, you have to be prepared at this.

IMHO, you are complicating rather than simplifying.

Price is price. Distance is distance. Position size is position size. None of these change when you change chart period.

I agree risk is a function of stop loss and position size.

How would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
When would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
Shouldn't this be determined BEFORE the trade is entered and not while the trade is on?

[Mira]

IMHO, you are complicating rather than simplifying.

Price is price. Distance is distance. Position size is position size. None of these change when you change chart period.

I agree risk is a function of stop loss and position size.

How would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
When would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
Shouldn't this be determined BEFORE the trade is entered and not while the trade is on?

You're right TRO, MO can give you a better answer.
I'm just trying to explain what i see

- How would I need more pips to protect my stop loss? / When would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
1) If i increased my size then my stop loss went closer to the current price, would i be prepared to "absorb" the next correction?
2) Salezyakuku told "If someone click 8 times adding 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 on M5 chart and want to go sleep for 8 hours how much he need to reduce and stay in game on D1 chart?" ... so my answer is: when i need to risk less for any reason.

What if i reduced and now i see price moving in my direction? I could add and come back to the original size (or bigger).
And what if i reduced and price moved in my direction before i could add? I still made some money, OPM.



You told me "Trading is GUESSING. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need a STOP LOSS. THINK ABOUT IT!!"
MO told me "Do your best to keep predictions to a minimum; if price is above then it is going up and if it is below then it is going down, that is all there is to it. Can price expand a range upwards wilst below the middle? Then going long is a prediction!"

I'm still learning to read charts but now i know it's not THAT important. No more.
I could set a very little risk on a D1 idea and wait&see price falling in my direction, after that is easy to say "I would have shorted at that price, with a sl at that price" on a H1, right? Okay, so i just need to increase my position and trail my stop loss.

With the wisdom of hindsight.

[MightyOne]

I just do not see the connection between chart time and price. As I pointed out in the chart, price is the same and you can have shaded candles, so time frame doesn't matter. Position size and price do not have anything to do with chart period and vice versa.

You can halve your size on the H1 chart and, guess what, the lines become wider if your risk is constant.

Once again, I may be too left-brained to comprehend this.

NONE of this is obvious to me. Once again, my left-brain does not see the logic. I still fail to understand the connection between time and space. A space of 10 pips on one chart is the same space on another. If you change your lot size, then the value of the space changes. This has nothing to do with chart period. Furthermore, chart period really is irrelevant because once you put your trade on the only thing affecting the outcome is the price.

MO and everyone else, I am debating the subject matter and not attacking MO personally in any way, shape or form. This is a civilized forum.

Money is a constant, because that is what we are trading for, so if you change your lot size then you change the rate at which that money is being made.

If you are making a set amount of money at wider intervals then you are trading a larger chart simply because wider lines require larger ranges which in turn leads to more time in the market; you cannot say that you are trading H1 if the targeted amount of money requires a multi-day move.

Think of it this way: if your trade is within a larger charts bar then you might be trading H1, but if you hold onto a trade through multiple bars of that larger chart then you have subjected your trade to the movement/expansions of that chart and thus are no longer trading H1; the longer you wait the larger the chart that is being traded. The exact period that you are trading is irrelevant, just know that you are moving up the periods, as time passes, and that the wider movement of larger charts requires wider lines.

I do not look at your comments as an attack...
an attack would be making an statement without an argument.

IMHO, you are complicating rather than simplifying.

Price is price. Distance is distance. Position size is position size. None of these change when you change chart period.

I agree risk is a function of stop loss and position size.

How would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
When would I need more pips to protect my stop loss?
Shouldn't this be determined BEFORE the trade is entered and not while the trade is on?

A trade is not measured from stop loss to take profit but from idea to fruition.

All that you are doing is looking at what you have and determining the best path to the money according to your resources.

Again, the longer you remain in a trade the more pips that you need to handle the wider movement of longer term price action.

If you are scalping, if you are not found waiting, then you do not need to adjust your position size.

[TheRumpledOne]

Money is a constant, because that is what we are trading for, so if you change your lot size then you change the rate at which that money is being made.

If you are making a set amount of money at wider intervals then you are trading a larger chart simply because wider lines require larger ranges which in turn leads to more time in the market; you cannot say that you are trading H1 if the targeted amount of money requires a multi-day move.

Think of it this way: if your trade is within a larger charts bar then you might be trading H1, but if you hold onto a trade through multiple bars of that larger chart then you have subjected your trade to the movement/expansions of that chart and thus are no longer trading H1; the longer you wait the larger the chart that is being traded. The exact period that you are trading is irrelevant, just know that you are moving up the periods, as time passes, and that the wider movement of larger charts requires wider lines.

I do not look at your comments as an attack...
an attack would be making an statement without an argument.


A trade is not measured from stop loss to take profit but from idea to fruition.

All that you are doing is looking at what you have and determining the best path to the money according to your resources.

Again, the longer you remain in a trade the more pips that you need to handle the wider movement of longer term price action.

If you are scalping, if you are not found waiting, then you do not need to adjust your position size.

This is a language problem. Talking about trading larger charts confuses things for me. You don't know how long it is going to take for price to move the amount you are looking for it to move. Price could spike 500 pips in the blink of an eye. Most of the time, you would call that a week's move or more. Time is irrelevant. Price is relevant.

Length in trade does not always mean you need more pips to handle. If you catch it just right, price may never move to threaten your stop loss.

MO, I just didn't want anyone getting the wrong impression. I know our respect is mutual.

[Mira]

I'm just drawing them for now

GBPUSDH4.png (50.98 KiB) Viewed 3194 times

[aliassmith]

Money is a constant, because that is what we are trading for, so if you change your lot size then you change the rate at which that money is being made.

If you are making a set amount of money at wider intervals then you are trading a larger chart simply because wider lines require larger ranges which in turn leads to more time in the market; you cannot say that you are trading H1 if the targeted amount of money requires a multi-day move.

Think of it this way: if your trade is within a larger charts bar then you might be trading H1, but if you hold onto a trade through multiple bars of that larger chart then you have subjected your trade to the movement/expansions of that chart and thus are no longer trading H1; the longer you wait the larger the chart that is being traded. The exact period that you are trading is irrelevant, just know that you are moving up the periods, as time passes, and that the wider movement of larger charts requires wider lines.

I do not look at your comments as an attack...
an attack would be making an statement without an argument.


A trade is not measured from stop loss to take profit but from idea to fruition.

All that you are doing is looking at what you have and determining the best path to the money according to your resources.

Again, the longer you remain in a trade the more pips that you need to handle the wider movement of longer term price action.

If you are scalping, if you are not found waiting, then you do not need to adjust your position size.

This is a language problem. Talking about trading larger charts confuses things for me. You don't know how long it is going to take for price to move the amount you are looking for it to move. Price could spike 500 pips in the blink of an eye. Most of the time, you would call that a week's move or more. Time is irrelevant. Price is relevant.

Length in trade does not always mean you need more pips to handle. If you catch it just right, price may never move to threaten your stop loss.

MO, I just didn't want anyone getting the wrong impression. I know our respect is mutual.

You say Time is irrelevant?
Price is relevant!
Volume is relevant!
& Time is relevant!

I can't think of a trading idea not based on some combination of those three.

Price is the current traded value. Price changes because of volume. Price change over time showing speed of money because of volume changes.

A Chart is a visual representation of this data so it does exist and so many people use them they become a self fulfilling prophecy. So basically a chart is an indicator.

Price does not sit in a vacuum by itself it works with volume and time.

[TheRumpledOne]

You say Time is irrelevant?
Price is relevant!
Volume is relevant!
& Time is relevant!

I can't think of a trading idea not based on some combination of those three.

Price is the current traded value. Price changes because of volume. Price change over time showing speed of money because of volume changes.

A Chart is a visual representation of this data so it does exist and so many people use them they become a self fulfilling prophecy. So basically a chart is an indicator.

Price does not sit in a vacuum by itself it works with volume and time.

Yes, I do say time is irrelevant.
The time is always changing but that does not imply that price changes.
Why do you exit a trade?
Because price has changed to such an extent you decide to stop loss or take profit.

You may argue that you exit because so much time has passed you simply want to exit regardless of price. I will give you that one.

The only time volume is a concern is when there is not enough volume to absorb your exit position or when you want to trade more than is available at your desired entry price.