Never Lose Again

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kate682
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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:16 pm

BambinoFlex wrote:
kate682 wrote:Could someone kindly let me know what 'DOP' stands for
Thank you



Hey Kate! Thank you for the indicator your shared.

DOP stands for "Diamond of Perception"

If you search the name and go to the last page you will see where MO starts talking about it.



Thank you and always happy to share code, if you'd like anything else just let me know, i have a lovely kit of script tools which i've jiggled together over time :-)
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Current trade music :-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-TbQnONe_w&list=PLOOLsN0qpbu6FdXfoSe8HZgaRIE4S2ssC&index=1

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:12 pm

Ref Diamond of perception (DOP), the problem i've always had with it, is the changing lines on mt4, if DOP drawn on monthly for instance, even if linked to two highs exactly, will not even remotely correspond as you go down two or more timeframes, so each timeframe has to almost be traded in its own right. There is also, in my view a timeframe problem, numerically they do not correspond to each other in terms of math differential. That is the problem with timeframe analysis. Would be better to say 10 mins, 60mins, 360mins etc.

The way i get around this is to merely anchor everything to my preferred trading chart, the 5min. (Yes i know i used to trade m1, but i used adr 30 5% stop and adr 30 10% minimum take profit, the five mins, with average 30 bars is about the same as 5% 30 adr. The 1min doesn't allow for that math in terms of spread. )

Any thoughts comments appreciated.
regards
Kate

ps) i've added my much loved jiggled lightweight MTF semafore indicator to mt4's indicators on kreslik. I prefer to use H1 semafors on my m5 to save all the clutter and giver higher probability space starts. :-) Yes i love space. :-) Best mo teachings ever.
Empirical Trader
Current trade music :-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-TbQnONe_w&list=PLOOLsN0qpbu6FdXfoSe8HZgaRIE4S2ssC&index=1

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BambinoFlex
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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby BambinoFlex » Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:01 pm

onontsira wrote:Hi again BambinoFlex,

Time will not reverse, it will only go to the right of the chart AND it will only go up or down; so that from full speed up to full speed down you have a total of 180°. If you divide this 180° "range" in two, by putting a line in the middle, you have 90°one way (up) and 90° the opposite way (down).

So, for demonstration purpose: we should speak of the middle of this semi-circle as 0 (being no speed at all), theorical full speed up would be 90°, theorical full speed down would be -90°. If everything between 0° and +90° will define up speed and everything between 0° and -90° will define down speed, then 45° AND -45° will both be "speed midpoints", where 45° is "midpoint speed up" and -45° is "midpoint speed down"

And this is for timing/velocity only, not to be confused with price level (horizontal lines). Price level is Y (fibs), and "time level" which we can also call "speed" is X (angles), they interact one in regard of the other, but each one only shows what it represents.

You can take decisions based on Y alone but in this case you only know where to look at from an "horizontal point of view", because that's only "where", only one dimension of the chart, you don't have timing at this point of your analysis. Now imagine that you could base your decisions on X ("vertical point of view") in addition to Y, both together interacting in one place at one time...

Another analogy I can try in order to explain what I mean (physics related), and even if it is hazardous, maybe it will more explicit: price is the object, it has a mass and its mass's name is "price level" (only pushed up or down), timing is the "motion" (speed, only pushing the object away to the right of the chart). MASS X MOTION is MOMENTUM (or lack of it). "Mass in motion", "mass combined with its velocity", "a place which is an extension of price level where I wait for a change in speed", that's what I'm looking for.

Momentum happens AND is located at the break of 2 equilibriums: the break of price level midpoint combined with the break of time midpoint. You can replace "midpoint" by "range" in some way.

X and Y combined in one "moment" is a cross you can draw on your chart, thus "momentum"...

Everybody will use different techniques to trade, because everybody sees the charts differently (I personaly use something close to Dragon Style), and that's not my goal to show "another way to skin the cat", and to discuss things that are already very well known such as "a proper MM is key". My purpose here is just to tell you that timing is essential because, to me (and for some others here), it is the other half of the analysis when it comes to take decisions. My opinion is that it has been really underestimated here because people are primarily focused on horizontal lines. Timing adds another dimension that allows us to trade momentum where and when it happens, that's priceless.
Even if we see the chart differently, we all should look at the whole chart (2 dimensions). I ignored it for a long time when I was more active on this forum, but since I understood that it is crucial, I added DOP/angles to my analysis, and it has been a game changing transformation.

I enjoy exchanging different points of view and I can't explain this part of what I see better, unless we start speaking french :? , my english is reaching its limits :oops: :D

Anyway, some"thing" (pattern) happening some"where" (fib) at some"time" (angle), all together + Space as MM, sounds to me like a powerful trading plan.

I wish I convinced you of the importance of diving into DOP sooner or later.

What do you think?

Onontsira



Thank you for your insight
"If you're wrong, guess what...thats TRADING"

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby BambinoFlex » Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:09 pm

kate682 wrote:Ref Diamond of perception (DOP), the problem i've always had with it, is the changing lines on mt4, if DOP drawn on monthly for instance, even if linked to two highs exactly, will not even remotely correspond as you go down two or more timeframes, so each timeframe has to almost be traded in its own right. There is also, in my view a timeframe problem, numerically they do not correspond to each other in terms of math differential. That is the problem with timeframe analysis. Would be better to say 10 mins, 60mins, 360mins etc.

The way i get around this is to merely anchor everything to my preferred trading chart, the 5min. (Yes i know i used to trade m1, but i used adr 30 5% stop and adr 30 10% minimum take profit, the five mins, with average 30 bars is about the same as 5% 30 adr. The 1min doesn't allow for that math in terms of spread. )

Any thoughts comments appreciated.
regards
Kate

ps) i've added my much loved jiggled lightweight MTF semafore indicator to mt4's indicators on kreslik. I prefer to use H1 semafors on my m5 to save all the clutter and giver higher probability space starts. :-) Yes i love space. :-) Best mo teachings ever.



You would want to use the Trendline vs the Trendline by Angle to not have the lines shift.

Interesting, you trade the 5m inside the hourly candle. Do you use ADR 30 of the 1hr or the 5min? I'm assuming 1hr? Do you buy below hourly open and sell above hourly open or how do you enter?
"If you're wrong, guess what...thats TRADING"

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:40 pm

BambinoFlex wrote:
kate682 wrote:Ref Diamond of perception (DOP), the problem i've always had with it, is the changing lines on mt4, if DOP drawn on monthly for instance, even if linked to two highs exactly, will not even remotely correspond as you go down two or more timeframes, so each timeframe has to almost be traded in its own right. There is also, in my view a timeframe problem, numerically they do not correspond to each other in terms of math differential. That is the problem with timeframe analysis. Would be better to say 10 mins, 60mins, 360mins etc.

The way i get around this is to merely anchor everything to my preferred trading chart, the 5min. (Yes i know i used to trade m1, but i used adr 30 5% stop and adr 30 10% minimum take profit, the five mins, with average 30 bars is about the same as 5% 30 adr. The 1min doesn't allow for that math in terms of spread. )

Any thoughts comments appreciated.
regards
Kate

ps) i've added my much loved jiggled lightweight MTF semafore indicator to mt4's indicators on kreslik. I prefer to use H1 semafors on my m5 to save all the clutter and giver higher probability space starts. :-) Yes i love space. :-) Best mo teachings ever.



You would want to use the Trendline vs the Trendline by Angle to not have the lines shift.

Interesting, you trade the 5m inside the hourly candle. Do you use ADR 30 of the 1hr or the 5min? I'm assuming 1hr? Do you buy below hourly open and sell above hourly open or how do you enter?


Thank you for the trendline information, i will try that, that would change things somewhat :-) Will let you know if i get on ok with that.

I have the h1 mtf semafor on my m5 and tend to sit up and take notice when the alert goes off. However I tend to trade the m5 as a standalone, zooming out to get areas where i feel stops live. I look for momentum, and then try and get a good entry on a pull back. I use adr - the average daily range, 5% of which is my stop and 10% is my minimum target (2r). At the moment, the dow (US30) is running at 316 (ie 36 point stop) and 632 (ie 62 take profit) - 5 point broker, (the adr for the dow is currently 6315, (613 points per day) and at the moment we've only covered 65% of this. I also tie in with 30 atr of the 5 min chart, which is currently running at 419 (ie 41 points) per bar. So i know my sl/tp within that scope (with a 2 pip broker spread) works out math wise. (if you zoom into the bottom left data label, all my details are there) The green lines are the adr space of 5% (thick line is the day's open). I got help from an mql5 coder (cost a bit!) to help me with the code so I've got that info auto on every instrument and adr fluctuation change.

WS30_SBM5.png
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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:00 am

Although I trade the 5min, this is roughly how i frame the market (credit to MO). I take - usually the h1, or whatever higher timeframe 'looks right', to get an idea of where price is in the cycle. I also like drawing what i call megahorns (marked in thicker green). I don't follow any hard or fast rule. For me at the moment we are in no-mans land in Dax, so apart from 5m scalps, i'm not building up space. I tend to use the megahorns to build up space, and when that happens magic begins :-) You can build up a large position in space, whilst scalping contra to yourself to add to that space and bank account. Really is a wonderful way to trade. Safety for me is paramount, and this is where working on space is brilliant.

GER40_SBH1.png
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GER40_SBH1 002.png
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Empirical Trader
Current trade music :-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-TbQnONe_w&list=PLOOLsN0qpbu6FdXfoSe8HZgaRIE4S2ssC&index=1

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby cheunt3 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:59 pm

kate682 wrote:Although I trade the 5min, this is roughly how i frame the market (credit to MO). I take - usually the h1, or whatever higher timeframe 'looks right', to get an idea of where price is in the cycle. I also like drawing what i call megahorns (marked in thicker green). I don't follow any hard or fast rule. For me at the moment we are in no-mans land in Dax, so apart from 5m scalps, i'm not building up space. I tend to use the megahorns to build up space, and when that happens magic begins :-) You can build up a large position in space, whilst scalping contra to yourself to add to that space and bank account. Really is a wonderful way to trade. Safety for me is paramount, and this is where working on space is brilliant.

GER40_SBH1.png

GER40_SBH1 002.png


Your charts are very clean, I'm so jealous :shock:
MO "Don't try to predict what will happen next, simply aim to consistently apply your ideas."

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:13 pm

15min megahorn pinpointed a nice pip collection pretty much. So much better than indicators. Love this stuff. h1 Semafor moved down with fast moving price. (Also clearly on H1)


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Empirical Trader
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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby kate682 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:55 pm

Lets talk about those dark cloaked people on the other side of your trade. The ones that have to take the other side, or the market could not exist, the ones that do not like being offside, for long, and will fight with huge cavernous pockets to fill their own. Ask yourself this, when you see a pattern that is so obvious in a chart, that surely everyone will trade it, supporting your entry and giving you an amazing pip range to bank. Who is on the other side, and are they happy, or plotting.

example big movement up, and then another, and then range / consolidation. You have no idea which way it will break, up or down. And - neither do they. However the side that is the most heavy, the cloaked ones will take it the other way. Even right up to the last moment, there could be an at market order that tips the balance, and instead of it going up and away from the range, it will go down. And that is why you can never bet the farm or trade without stops, because it will never be known. No indicator on the planet, no insider knowledge, nothing can change that . . . in my view of course, we all see our own truth in the market.

And this is how I finally managed to be happy with stops. The markets teacher. So I smile and try and learn from my stops. Close enough not to hurt, with entries placed carefully enough not to be mainstream. But before that, I wait for the clues. If I watch candles long enough, I start to feel it. Candle by Candle. What is the previous candle telling me. So this thread 'never lose again' doesn't include me, because my space does get eaten, and my first 5 trades can be stopped out for peanuts, but then, often enough to keep me in the game, i win and win big.

I trade three different ways.

(1) scalp what I see on M5, htf framed in diamonds and megahorns, then its all about candle colour and size.
(2) Trade space at pointy bits, my size in 5 or 10 chunks. I enter full size 1, which is divisible by 10. It goes against me, I close a chunk 2/10, so I am now short 8/10, my space is larger, price continues against me, I close another chunk, so I am now short 6/10, my space is bigger, my carry forward loss/margin/risk smaller. And again, till and if my box is spent, my stop eaten. Carefully placed and then managed, 5 chunks of 2 lasts a long time, and suddenly, often without warning, my original idea works, and I can re-sell those chunks I closed. That to me is space. And then I add, 2/10 at a time, where my breakeven is far enough to support the 5% adr 30 stop. Moving my space, till it's tiny and at the biggest size I can get it to before that gets zapped into my bank, eaten up, by me, not the cloaked ones.
(3) Glass of wine during fomc and nfp, tiny size, fun and hit the button, my sl tp based on 5% each way. 50 50. me against the market. With a ££ i'm allowed to lose. Because trading should be fun.

So this is me, and i'd love to hear about you.
kate
Empirical Trader
Current trade music :-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-TbQnONe_w&list=PLOOLsN0qpbu6FdXfoSe8HZgaRIE4S2ssC&index=1

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Re: Never Lose Again

Postby cheunt3 » Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:22 am

kate682 wrote:Lets talk about those dark cloaked people on the other side of your trade. The ones that have to take the other side, or the market could not exist, the ones that do not like being offside, for long, and will fight with huge cavernous pockets to fill their own. Ask yourself this, when you see a pattern that is so obvious in a chart, that surely everyone will trade it, supporting your entry and giving you an amazing pip range to bank. Who is on the other side, and are they happy, or plotting.

example big movement up, and then another, and then range / consolidation. You have no idea which way it will break, up or down. And - neither do they. However the side that is the most heavy, the cloaked ones will take it the other way. Even right up to the last moment, there could be an at market order that tips the balance, and instead of it going up and away from the range, it will go down. And that is why you can never bet the farm or trade without stops, because it will never be known. No indicator on the planet, no insider knowledge, nothing can change that . . . in my view of course, we all see our own truth in the market.

And this is how I finally managed to be happy with stops. The markets teacher. So I smile and try and learn from my stops. Close enough not to hurt, with entries placed carefully enough not to be mainstream. But before that, I wait for the clues. If I watch candles long enough, I start to feel it. Candle by Candle. What is the previous candle telling me. So this thread 'never lose again' doesn't include me, because my space does get eaten, and my first 5 trades can be stopped out for peanuts, but then, often enough to keep me in the game, i win and win big.

I trade three different ways.

(1) scalp what I see on M5, htf framed in diamonds and megahorns, then its all about candle colour and size.
(2) Trade space at pointy bits, my size in 5 or 10 chunks. I enter full size 1, which is divisible by 10. It goes against me, I close a chunk 2/10, so I am now short 8/10, my space is larger, price continues against me, I close another chunk, so I am now short 6/10, my space is bigger, my carry forward loss/margin/risk smaller. And again, till and if my box is spent, my stop eaten. Carefully placed and then managed, 5 chunks of 2 lasts a long time, and suddenly, often without warning, my original idea works, and I can re-sell those chunks I closed. That to me is space. And then I add, 2/10 at a time, where my breakeven is far enough to support the 5% adr 30 stop. Moving my space, till it's tiny and at the biggest size I can get it to before that gets zapped into my bank, eaten up, by me, not the cloaked ones.
(3) Glass of wine during fomc and nfp, tiny size, fun and hit the button, my sl tp based on 5% each way. 50 50. me against the market. With a ££ i'm allowed to lose. Because trading should be fun.

So this is me, and i'd love to hear about you.
kate


Your megahorn is a cone to me. :D

Thanks for sharing, you got the technical side to fine art but I read your post as a psychological one.

FOMO was the one thing that held me back for years. My stops and timeframes kept getting larger and larger due to my insanity of wanting to win each trade but the win loss was even worse the higher it got, I couldn't figure it out and that was my journey into squiggles. Then MO came along and told me to not have one huge stop but to break it up into pieces. Don't bet the whole farm on one crop but to plant seasonal crops to lessen the risk of not losing the entire farm. I credit TRO too, he kept saying, once you placed the order, you have no control of what will happen next, he kept saying it and saying it until after I have placed many trades, I finally got it what he was saying and finally got what MO was teaching:

Since you have no idea the outcome once you place the trade why risk on one big stop?

Since you have no idea the outcome once you place the trade wouldn't it be better to take smaller stops until one succeeds?

And after that, building position on a small chart and waiting for a large move, OPM and the MM maths to Never Lose Again :D
MO "Don't try to predict what will happen next, simply aim to consistently apply your ideas."

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