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aliassmith
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dragon33 wrote:
aliassmith wrote:
lukx wrote:LOSS:

Some people out there believe that we can just pick some R:R ratio and that is what it will be because we think it should be like what we want.

I on the other hand believe that "The Market Will Give You What The Hell It Wants To Give You".

How many times have you picked a target, say based on a 1 hour chart?
The price doesn't get to the target but strangely turns a 180 degrees and moves against you. Then of course someone says well it hit the 15 minute zline/support/resistance/demand etc. etc.

Or, price does the same thing but this time it hits the zline/support/resistance/demand etc. etc. of the 4 hour chart.

Looking at those facts how can a set it and forget it strategy be viable without taking into consideration all timeframes and their possible turning points

To combat this we need to manage the trades which is as important as the entry in my opinion.

When taking a trade it is good to be able to exit a portion of the trade at different intervals. I trade at Oanda so I need to place two orders so I can bail on one when price is acting questionable. (It is called getting in and then limiting risk)

I look to get out of a trade when:
= I am at a resonable profit say 2% or better and price is acting funny
= A candle on my timeframe closes against me
= My entry candle closed against my zline
= Getting out after 3 candles if they seem like duds (NO MOMENTUM)

Another thing that is useful is placing your stoploss where it should actually be and not where your lot size determines. Determine you maximum lot size by (account size * risk percentage) / (stoploss +spread)
The answer to that equation will be your maximum \$ risk per pip.

account \$100,000
risk 2%
stopploss 13

\$100,000 *2% = \$2000
13 + 3 = 16

\$2000/16 = \$125/pip or 12.5 lots

On a final note:
my trading partner was having trouble getting some decent returns and we had a discussion about it to see what was happening.

He only made .5% and 1% on a few trades and was wonder what was happening. The thing is he had made some nice 5% trades and now he was thinking he is superman and can get that all the time.

Come on let us have a reallity check. I don't care that es/pip, Mightyone, and Dragon33 can make 100% a week. I couldn't play basketball like Michael Jordan either.

The point is these types of people are gifted (all-stars)
making 5%, 10% or more a month is superhuman.

Bank interest 3% 1 year
Money Market 5% 1 year
Nice Hedge fund 40% 1 year
Forex 6% a week compounded for 1 year 2000%

That is 3 nice "cherry" trades per week at 2% each, you don't need 30% a week to be rich with Forex Trading.

I don't know if this will help anyone but it sure did put things in perspective for my trading partner.

You can not get into a trade and set a 1/4 on every trade. The thing you can do waiting for the trade with the highest probability to make that 1/4. That's a big difference.
A set and forget strategie is not that easy. I don't believe it exists. You have to take your profit when there is and the best way to do that is building confidence in the method you use. Make your entry and build your way up, get out when price is stalling and try to get in when price is heading in the same direction as before.

The main thing is you are totally right about the 2%.
Every dollar you make that a bank can't give you is a better dollar. You only need the discipline to walk instead of running.

I was in your shoes but if you know how many screen hours i've made some people would call me crazy. But now it pays amazing well.

As I had said.....You Sir are a superhuman trader....and not everyone will be able to trade as well as you...the thing is you can do really well "walking" ...I believe that anyone willing to put the work in can at least get to the walking stage.

lukx
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SHORT:

why:

lukx
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loss:

es/pip
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aliassmith wrote:
lukx wrote:LOSS:

Some people out there believe that we can just pick some R:R ratio and that is what it will be because we think it should be like what we want.

I on the other hand believe that "The Market Will Give You What The Hell It Wants To Give You".

How many times have you picked a target, say based on a 1 hour chart?
The price doesn't get to the target but strangely turns a 180 degrees and moves against you. Then of course someone says well it hit the 15 minute zline/support/resistance/demand etc. etc.

Or, price does the same thing but this time it hits the zline/support/resistance/demand etc. etc. of the 4 hour chart.

Looking at those facts how can a set it and forget it strategy be viable without taking into consideration all timeframes and their possible turning points

To combat this we need to manage the trades which is as important as the entry in my opinion.

When taking a trade it is good to be able to exit a portion of the trade at different intervals. I trade at Oanda so I need to place two orders so I can bail on one when price is acting questionable. (It is called getting in and then limiting risk)

I look to get out of a trade when:
= I am at a resonable profit say 2% or better and price is acting funny
= A candle on my timeframe closes against me
= My entry candle closed against my zline
= Getting out after 3 candles if they seem like duds (NO MOMENTUM)

Another thing that is useful is placing your stoploss where it should actually be and not where your lot size determines. Determine you maximum lot size by (account size * risk percentage) / (stoploss +spread)
The answer to that equation will be your maximum \$ risk per pip.

account \$100,000
risk 2%
stopploss 13

\$100,000 *2% = \$2000
13 + 3 = 16

\$2000/16 = \$125/pip or 12.5 lots

On a final note:
my trading partner was having trouble getting some decent returns and we had a discussion about it to see what was happening.

He only made .5% and 1% on a few trades and was wonder what was happening. The thing is he had made some nice 5% trades and now he was thinking he is superman and can get that all the time.

Come on let us have a reallity check. I don't care that es/pip, Mightyone, and Dragon33 can make 100% a week. I couldn't play basketball like Michael Jordan either.

The point is these types of people are gifted (all-stars)
making 5%, 10% or more a month is superhuman.

Bank interest 3% 1 year
Money Market 5% 1 year
Nice Hedge fund 40% 1 year
Forex 6% a week compounded for 1 year 2000%

That is 3 nice "cherry" trades per week at 2% each, you don't need 30% a week to be rich with Forex Trading.

I don't know if this will help anyone but it sure did put things in perspective for my trading partner.

i am no different than anyone else

like dragon said, i have spent a lot of time at looking at charts etc etc. After you put in the time you are able to just see things that you couldn't see before, cant really be explained in words.
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

es/pip
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cfabian wrote:Lukx, I'm going to use your trading journal to post my trades as well. Hope you don't mind as don't want to create another room. People is helping a lot here.

Well, this is my trade from today on GU. Entered long based on D1 momo, H1 momo, and M15 MZ. Entered a trade with 18 pip SL. It was +7, and booom, dropped like hell. LOSS of 18.

h1

1----- momo down with held profit above
2---- was it an increase in momo up---yes, but relative to where it wicked the line and closed also compared to bar #1 i am just not thrilled with that for a long

m15

1. first increase off the low momo---
2. i would rather you get long somewhere here if you are going to trade long
3. 2nd momo up for a 2nd chance entry on bar #4
4. poss long
5. ehhhhhhh i am not playing long off that bar, if i were going to "try" it, i am out on the first sign of weakness
6. no momo, inside bar, no demand bar whatever you want to call it that is your extreme caution sign right there--- i am either out of that trade or out at the low of that bar.

edit----- bar #5 label got cut off, it is the bar that wicked the line

Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

cfabian
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Just entered this trade. Based on D1 trend and AFTER price bouncing up again. Entered on H1 momo.

Trading micro lot, let's see how it develops. Currently -6.

WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!
"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"

cfabian
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Thanks espip
I based my trade more on D1, and after that down momo, and seeing price climbing up after wicking the daily MZ and having no bodies closing beyond that MZ line. Took that chance on that mighty zone. Of course didn't work. See attached image.

I do get all your points, but was more longer term biased. Not sure if was seeing the picture correctly.

Looks like price is back on track to the long side.

es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Lukx, I'm going to use your trading journal to post my trades as well. Hope you don't mind as don't want to create another room. People is helping a lot here.

Well, this is my trade from today on GU. Entered long based on D1 momo, H1 momo, and M15 MZ. Entered a trade with 18 pip SL. It was +7, and booom, dropped like hell. LOSS of 18.

h1

1----- momo down with held profit above
2---- was it an increase in momo up---yes, but relative to where it wicked the line and closed also compared to bar #1 i am just not thrilled with that for a long

m15

1. first increase off the low momo---
2. i would rather you get long somewhere here if you are going to trade long
3. 2nd momo up for a 2nd chance entry on bar #4
4. poss long
5. ehhhhhhh i am not playing long off that bar, if i were going to "try" it, i am out on the first sign of weakness
6. no momo, inside bar, no demand bar whatever you want to call it that is your extreme caution sign right there--- i am either out of that trade or out at the low of that bar.

edit----- bar #5 label got cut off, it is the bar that wicked the line

WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!

"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"

es/pip
rank: 1000+ posts
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:28 pm
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cfabian wrote:Thanks espip
I based my trade more on D1, and after that down momo, and seeing price climbing up after wicking the daily MZ and having no bodies closing beyond that MZ line. Took that chance on that mighty zone. Of course didn't work. See attached image.

I do get all your points, but was more longer term biased. Not sure if was seeing the picture correctly.

Looks like price is back on track to the long side.

es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Lukx, I'm going to use your trading journal to post my trades as well. Hope you don't mind as don't want to create another room. People is helping a lot here.

Well, this is my trade from today on GU. Entered long based on D1 momo, H1 momo, and M15 MZ. Entered a trade with 18 pip SL. It was +7, and booom, dropped like hell. LOSS of 18.

h1

1----- momo down with held profit above
2---- was it an increase in momo up---yes, but relative to where it wicked the line and closed also compared to bar #1 i am just not thrilled with that for a long

m15

1. first increase off the low momo---
2. i would rather you get long somewhere here if you are going to trade long
3. 2nd momo up for a 2nd chance entry on bar #4
4. poss long
5. ehhhhhhh i am not playing long off that bar, if i were going to "try" it, i am out on the first sign of weakness
6. no momo, inside bar, no demand bar whatever you want to call it that is your extreme caution sign right there--- i am either out of that trade or out at the low of that bar.

edit----- bar #5 label got cut off, it is the bar that wicked the line

yeah i am with ya on that

im in with you on the h1 trade targeting upper zl

lets see what happens

Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

es/pip
rank: 1000+ posts
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es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Thanks espip
I based my trade more on D1, and after that down momo, and seeing price climbing up after wicking the daily MZ and having no bodies closing beyond that MZ line. Took that chance on that mighty zone. Of course didn't work. See attached image.

I do get all your points, but was more longer term biased. Not sure if was seeing the picture correctly.

Looks like price is back on track to the long side.

es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Lukx, I'm going to use your trading journal to post my trades as well. Hope you don't mind as don't want to create another room. People is helping a lot here.

Well, this is my trade from today on GU. Entered long based on D1 momo, H1 momo, and M15 MZ. Entered a trade with 18 pip SL. It was +7, and booom, dropped like hell. LOSS of 18.

h1

1----- momo down with held profit above
2---- was it an increase in momo up---yes, but relative to where it wicked the line and closed also compared to bar #1 i am just not thrilled with that for a long

m15

1. first increase off the low momo---
2. i would rather you get long somewhere here if you are going to trade long
3. 2nd momo up for a 2nd chance entry on bar #4
4. poss long
5. ehhhhhhh i am not playing long off that bar, if i were going to "try" it, i am out on the first sign of weakness
6. no momo, inside bar, no demand bar whatever you want to call it that is your extreme caution sign right there--- i am either out of that trade or out at the low of that bar.

edit----- bar #5 label got cut off, it is the bar that wicked the line

yeah i am with ya on that

im in with you on the h1 trade targeting upper zl

lets see what happens

LOL

9 whole pips
Bend over and assume the position for another 4 years of hope and change.

cfabian
rank: 150+ posts
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:37 pm
Reputation: 0
Gender:
Yep... I got out at BE as I set a SL when leaving the office for my journey back home. I was at +13 at that moment, thinking it could reach the level you marked during the asian open.

Lets see what's the market up for tomorrow.

es/pip wrote:
es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Thanks espip
I based my trade more on D1, and after that down momo, and seeing price climbing up after wicking the daily MZ and having no bodies closing beyond that MZ line. Took that chance on that mighty zone. Of course didn't work. See attached image.

I do get all your points, but was more longer term biased. Not sure if was seeing the picture correctly.

Looks like price is back on track to the long side.

es/pip wrote:
cfabian wrote:Lukx, I'm going to use your trading journal to post my trades as well. Hope you don't mind as don't want to create another room. People is helping a lot here.

Well, this is my trade from today on GU. Entered long based on D1 momo, H1 momo, and M15 MZ. Entered a trade with 18 pip SL. It was +7, and booom, dropped like hell. LOSS of 18.

h1

1----- momo down with held profit above
2---- was it an increase in momo up---yes, but relative to where it wicked the line and closed also compared to bar #1 i am just not thrilled with that for a long

m15

1. first increase off the low momo---
2. i would rather you get long somewhere here if you are going to trade long
3. 2nd momo up for a 2nd chance entry on bar #4
4. poss long
5. ehhhhhhh i am not playing long off that bar, if i were going to "try" it, i am out on the first sign of weakness
6. no momo, inside bar, no demand bar whatever you want to call it that is your extreme caution sign right there--- i am either out of that trade or out at the low of that bar.

edit----- bar #5 label got cut off, it is the bar that wicked the line

yeah i am with ya on that

im in with you on the h1 trade targeting upper zl

lets see what happens

LOL

9 whole pips
WILL GET MY MONEY BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS, AND I MEAN IT !!!!!

"WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE, WAIT FOR PRICE"