How to be a MOnster

[tom7ak]

Hi Tom!

I found this post that MO wrote me on page 383 of The Ideas, it's about extremes and I think it could help:

I keep saying "don't read old posts, they are just going to confuse you when you read the new posts" but people do it anyway.

A stop at the extreme is not required, but if it were then you would simply change your position size to give yourself more space.

The flaw in trading away from the extremes is that there is only ONE highest high & lowest low in a given period of time.
If price is at the extreme then it is not below something and if it is not lower than something then how can we go short?

We could wait for a smaller chart to move below something but now we are praying that price moves to the opposite end of the bar and starts expanding in the opposite direction; something that is even less likely than an extreme being THE extreme.

Will there be hundreds of pips between the extremes, yes.
If you know the end then all that you have to do is solve the beginning.

If you want to learn how to read a chart then focus on patterns and breakouts.

Patterns_and_Breakouts.png

Hi Mira,
thank you for your post. I cannot see anything now:) Mr Market has beaten me again. Its so hard to get rid of bad habits.

Anyway. What would you say about EURUSD Daily? For me THE extreme is in. If we rule out the Lower TF entries, then all i can see is either:
1. I should have already being short, based on the HISTORY or
2. patiently wait for a correction (price or time) and enter there ie SPACE.

[dojirock]

Heres a bit of gold carrot for ya. You guys posted this chart. Follow thru with it. You guys marked the origins of Momentum, Great Job.
From my signature line, "It takes Momentum to Break Momentum". Now look at the chart and see if it changes how you see Price action any.
Its all there....

Good luck
Doji

2017-03-31_1533.png (66.5 KiB) Viewed 4834 times

Price didn't close above yet, for what I see.. maybe I'd scalp until the 50% but it looks dangerous.

So dangerous, LOL. Price at 1.0678 (-50 pips)

Just remember: don't take zlines or supply/demand as supports and resistances.

Zlines could be everywhere, to draw a price map place lines where you feel that something strong happened.. opens, close, midpoints or dragon lines/color change are... magic =)

Thanks Mira. I am learning everyday.

but if you are looking for a short at that line then you need two steps, a close ABOVE something and a close BELOW something..

¿Could price begin to short without CLOSE ABOVE?

I ask you that because of it:

you need two steps, a close ABOVE something and a close BELOW something

I supose this CLOSE must have force (MOMOs). ¿Right?

---> !!! If you look at this PA on a lower tf it's cool, because this is still an area, but keep in mind that you are trading THAT timeframe (Daily, i.e.) and NOT the monthly!

This TF looks like you said before as a ideal PA. LOL.

Note: ¿How I quote a picture?

I don't know why sometimes it quotes pictures too and sometimes not we might ask Kreslik

Anyway.. price could start to drop from tops without a close above/below but you'd be guessing.
Remember this MO statement:

If price is at the extreme then it is not below something and if it is not lower than something then how can we go short?

We could wait for a smaller chart to move below something but now we are praying that price moves to the opposite end of the bar and starts expanding in the opposite direction; something that is even less likely than an extreme being THE extreme.

These words opened my eyes!

[tom7ak]

Doji,

Do you treat `old` momentum from previous swings the same way as fresh ones from current swing?

[Mira]

Hi Mira,
thank you for your post. I cannot see anything now:) Mr Market has beaten me again. Its so hard to get rid of bad habits.

Anyway. What would you say about EURUSD Daily? For me THE extreme is in. If we rule out the Lower TF entries, then all i can see is either:
1. I should have already being short, based on the HISTORY or
2. patiently wait for a correction (price or time) and enter there ie SPACE.

Hi Tom!

We are learning together
Draw a line and keep your eyes on it, price closed over or not? What would you need to see a fail at your line (shift S/D)? Closed bodies show the way!


The zone looks strong but we are in a bigger range

IMG_2741.PNG (75.56 KiB) Viewed 4779 times

So may we could see that zone soon

IMG_2742.PNG (78.43 KiB) Viewed 4779 times

For now we missed a good one this time

[Mira]

Heres a bit of gold carrot for ya. You guys posted this chart. Follow thru with it. You guys marked the origins of Momentum, Great Job.
From my signature line, "It takes Momentum to Break Momentum". Now look at the chart and see if it changes how you see Price action any.
Its all there....

Good luck
Doji2017-03-31_1533.png

Hi Doji!

Mmm your words gave me an impression, but it's just an impression

It looks like price is moving in a horizontal way..

IMG_2738.PNG (11.92 KiB) Viewed 4778 times

ZERO

IMG_2739.PNG (22.12 KiB) Viewed 4778 times

Thanks for your help!

[tom7ak]

XAUUSDH1.png (47.83 KiB) Viewed 4769 times

[dojirock]

Doji,

Do you treat `old` momentum from previous swings the same way as fresh ones from current swing?

Hi Tom,

Over my 2 years of teaching I found it best to give clues on how to read price action which will stimulate thinking vs telling other traders what to do. By telling them it usually turns into a trade service, which I wont do and avoid. Its along with the proverb of "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

That picture that I re-posted hits it on the head. Sometimes 'old' momentum is only a few bars back on turns. Sometimes 'old' momentum is 30 bars back ONLY due to price was in a strong up trend or down trend. With that perspective are not those 30 bars all in one of a higher time frame? If so, using the logic of "It takes momentum to break momentum", has that happened yet on that time frame? or not?
Not to confuse, but its all the same on any time frame, chart, and or chart type. Once you learn to read momentum. Its the essence of price action.

Re-reading what I just wrote seems like it will come across as advanced to you or not make sense at this time. If so come back to it at some point you will have an ahh-ha moment.

Lets back up a minute now, to the chart that was posted. Ask yourself this, At what point of the old momentum's origin was the line drawn?
Now later in time on the chart when that said point(or line) was reached, was it with momentum? If it was with momentum ask your self where the origin of that momentum lies in relation to the old momentum's origin? Then ask yourself where the end of the momentum lies in relation to the old momentum's origin?
By determining these two points will answer the original question if the old momentum's origin was really approached by momentum.

One may need to re evaluate his definition of momentum?

doji

[tom7ak]

Doji,

Do you treat `old` momentum from previous swings the same way as fresh ones from current swing?

Hi Tom,

Over my 2 years of teaching I found it best to give clues on how to read price action which will stimulate thinking vs telling other traders what to do. By telling them it usually turns into a trade service, which I wont do and avoid. Its along with the proverb of "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

That picture that I re-posted hits it on the head. Sometimes 'old' momentum is only a few bars back on turns. Sometimes 'old' momentum is 30 bars back ONLY due to price was in a strong up trend or down trend. With that perspective are not those 30 bars all in one of a higher time frame? If so, using the logic of "It takes momentum to break momentum", has that happened yet on that time frame? or not?
Not to confuse, but its all the same on any time frame, chart, and or chart type. Once you learn to read momentum. Its the essence of price action.

Re-reading what I just wrote seems like it will come across as advanced to you or not make sense at this time. If so come back to it at some point you will have an ahh-ha moment.

Lets back up a minute now, to the chart that was posted. Ask yourself this, At what point of the old momentum's origin was the line drawn?
Now later in time on the chart when that said point(or line) was reached, was it with momentum? If it was with momentum ask your self where the origin of that momentum lies in relation to the old momentum's origin? Then ask yourself where the end of the momentum lies in relation to the old momentum's origin?
By determining these two points will answer the original question if the old momentum's origin was really approached by momentum.

One may need to re evaluate his definition of momentum?

doji

tkanks for your post. i think i know what u mean by getting a fish and teach someone how to fish. do u give a fiver to a homeless on a street or try to give him a job so he can earn his living. whats better for him? 95% want a fish (not excluding myself here). with the reminder 5% who will take a job, only a handful will stick to it as `the old habits` are too strong. another thought - what would happen to a homeless if u gave him 1 000 000$?

Getting back to trading (if we walked away from it in the first place) - i dont think i need to learn anything new. its more about forgetting old habits by programming new ones. momentum is not a momentum if it didnt break momentum. what do u do when u see momentum? go with it. which momentum do u go with...which timeframe is this momentum on... These are just thoughts, not real questions.

ITs NOT U WHO SELECT a TF; how to see all timeframes on on chart...
POINTY PLACE
SEPARATING MOMENTUM FROM PATTERN

i will probably get back to this post again. for now i think i need to spend more time on charts rather than reading old posts.
i dont want to clutter Mira`s thread too much. but... stil gonna ask one more question - i did read your thread in the past. from what i remember u struggled with moving to bigger TFs and classed yourself more of a scalper. how would u describe ur trading now? what made u successful more than anything else? whats ur routine, i mean time spent on trading. thx

[Mira]

Tom, don't worry because this thread is open.. I can just learn something and we can help us together.

Thank you for posting and thank you Doji for your clues!
Hints are the best way to teach because it's the only way in which we could really learn to SEE!
BTW, are two days that I'm trying to get what Doji is saying without results

I can see momentum breaking momentum and becoming S/D, but nothing more for now.. origin and end of momentum? And how are they related to the time frame?


I need to meditate on it!

[dojirock]

Tom,

At the point of my trading journal here, it unfolds from seeing nothing to seeing something. I have started to look over some of my old thread and will tell you it was a journey of learning. Some things in that journal, turned out to be nothing, others were big stepping stones towards my success. I think a lot of the threads are similar here with an exception of a few. Including my thread, it seems most traders cut back on posting once they "see" so they can concentrate on trading. I'm not discounting everything in my thread, but I do chuckle at some of which I posted at times due to it seems silly that I really saw it that way at one point. But, those steps got me to new steps and so on. The biggest hurdle with trade forums is interpretation. Things I learned later to "see" did apply back then by definition but I didn't assemble those pieces correctly or in the correct order.

I also come to understand through teaching that the longer I trade the harder it is to explain things to newer traders. Believe me I have tried for a couple years. I have heard from some of my friends after trying to get them to understand in 3-4 different ways, the 5th way struck with them. I would get "why didn't you just say that in the 1st place?" lol I see some evidence of this with Mo's teachings. His latest ideas are more clear to me at least than many of the earlier things which are the same thing, but explained in a different way. Kudo's to Mo for his persistence to keep sharing his ideas in different formats.

Anyways, I didn't mean to muck up the tread but wanted to encourage traders to think out side of the box on definitions of what they thing things are. They are not always aligned in the same way. I know this from experience.

I will leave you with this, My trading changed overnight when I altered my understanding of Momentum vs what I thought was being taught about it. Was it an interpretation thing? Probably, but for me until I understood it my way, my trading was stagnate.

Answer to your question, I still scalp, and have found I do swing trade quite frequently. I have had 2 trades that were long term, meaning i opened it in the 1st week of December and didnt close it till February. Thats not me... it was painful waiting for that trade to come to fruition but it did. Kudo's to those long term traders, its just not for me. The principles I trade by work on long term, I just cant find the patience to use long term.

One last thought, If you making money great! If not and i'm sure there are traders here on KR that are not. That is who these replies are intended for. I am not to change anyone that has found the success already. Im encouraging the one's that haven't to re-evaluate there definition of there principles. For me it was Momentum and I see many traders failing to understand Momentum.

Doji

hope this helps

doji